Sedgwick CP buying advice

[PeterPan]

Greetings to all!

First, let me again say Hi! to everybody since this is my first post on this forum

And to get straight to my question/inquiry:
I have the chance to bid for a used Sedgwick CP. Because I have zero experience with the brand and I can not visit or inspect the machine in person, I hope I can get some inside from more experienced users.

The machine is currently in Germany, and the starting bid is at €200 (£174). Because I would order transport to Slovenia, the cost for me would end up to be considerably higher. That's why I want to be even more cautious against a bad buy. Of course, I will call the seller for more information, but I have added pictures that the seller has put online, if maybe you can notice anything that would be worth mentioning (or I should note to ask the seller). Myself, I have noticed the infeed table looks like it is not aligned with the fence (marked on a picture), but I really can't explain it, and I am not sure if this is a major problem. So the closing question is: Should I bid for the machine and how high would you go?

I reviewed the forum, and it seems one can not really go wrong with a Sedgwick (the term often used is bomb-proof
Interestingly, German woodworking forums do not even have one post on Sedgwick, and it seems Germans are not interested in the brand, or the mentioned auction for that matter

Thank you in advance for any information/advice, and have a great (hopefully woodworky weekend!

Peter

 

[deema]

The fence isn’t an issue, the outfeed side has a gap in it to allow the infeed to be dropped very low for rebating. There is a small insert that drops down onto the outfeed table to keep it flat on the infeed……which isn’t set.
I would want a view of the mechanism, ie the back off the machine to see the state of the sprockets, chain and pulleys.
Ask if the infeed table is aligned perfectly to the spindle……not the knives. Occasionally they can be out of alignment with wear on one side of the slides. That’s not easy to correct! You cannot just adjust the knives as this makes the thicknesser out of true. You either need to remachine them or shim the thicknesser table if it’s consistent over it’s range of travel. (Or shim the spindle mounts and the thicknesser table if you swap it for say a Tersa or spiral block)
Ask if the motor is electrically braked or mechanically, if it’s the later the clutch plates can wear out and to fix is expensive.
Check it’s for its anti kick back rail still in place. Sometimes people take them out.
The nut / thread that the infeed table table is moved by is prone to rusting up, check the table can be moved over it’s entire length of travel. I’ve often had to make a new threaded bar adjuster as they tend to strip if really corroded up.
I’d assume the spindle bearings will need replacing along with the 4 sintered bronze bushes for the infeed and outfeed rollers. Assume you possible need new sprockets and chain along with a new belt.

 

[RobinBHM]

Sedgwick is a British company and manufactured in UK.

They are good quality machines, simple but solid.

I doubt they have much presence in Europe.

 

[PeterPan]

The fence isn’t an issue, the outfeed side has a gap in it to allow the infeed to be dropped very low for rebating. There is a small insert that drops down onto the outfeed table to keep it flat on the infeed……which isn’t set.
I would want a view of the mechanism, ie the back off the machine to see the state of the sprockets, chain and pulleys.
Ask if the infeed table is aligned perfectly to the spindle……not the knives. Occasionally they can be out of alignment with wear on one side of the slides. That’s not easy to correct! You cannot just adjust the knives as this makes the thicknesser out of true. You either need to remachine them or shim the thicknesser table if it’s consistent over it’s range of travel. (Or shim the spindle mounts and the thicknesser table if you swap it for say a Tersa or spiral block)
Ask if the motor is electrically braked or mechanically, if it’s the later the clutch plates can wear out and to fix is expensive.
Check it’s for its anti kick back rail still in place. Sometimes people take them out.
The nut / thread that the infeed table table is moved by is prone to rusting up, check the table can be moved over it’s entire length of travel. I’ve often had to make a new threaded bar adjuster as they tend to strip if really corroded up.
I’d assume the spindle bearings will need replacing along with the 4 sintered bronze bushes for the infeed and outfeed rollers. Assume you possible need new sprockets and chain along with a new belt.

Wow, thank you very much, I will keep your notes in mind, while calling. I will also try to get some extra photos you would like to see.

You mentioned sprockets, and chains... Are those norm parts/generic, or will I need to contact Sedgwick?

Taking into account it is a used machine, and let's assume it has no major malfunction, or trouble, what would be a reasonable price to aim for?

Regards.

 

[PeterPan]

Sedgwick is a British company and manufactured in UK.

They are good quality machines, simple but solid.

I doubt they have much presence in Europe.

That is why I doubt there will be much interest for the auction, and I could get it for a low bid (assuming it is not in complete shambles

 

[deema]

The parts are standard stuff, however, what they indicate is how much work it’s done. If they are worn, you can almost guarantee all the bushes and bearings would benefit from being replaced.
They are easy to check when the machine is stripped, almost always the worst are the ones closest to the drive sprockets. The video shows the unacceptable play in the bush off an MB, but they are all the same.

 

[deema]

You need a bit of kit to setup a PT if you take it apart so, please don’t think unless you have a good range of quality mechanical engineer clocks and gauges that it can be done easily.

 

[PeterPan]

You need a bit of kit to setup a PT if you take it apart so, please don’t think unless you have a good range of quality mechanical engineer clocks and gauges that it can be done easily.

Again, thank you.

I don't have an engineering background, so I don't either have the mentioned tools. I must admit, I am a bit discouraged.... All in all, it seems I should not bother biding/getting this specific machine. Although, the low price still has a major appeal.

 

[LJM]

I’d suggest that much of what Deema has said is generic; the same would apply to any machine. But that looks to be in good condition, outwardly.

 

[PeterPan]

I’d suggest that much of what Deema has said is generic; the same would apply to any machine. But that looks to be in good condition, outwardly.

Thank you! I really appreciate that you commented the condition (from what can be seen) of the machine. Could you, judging from the picture say that any part of the machine is for sure alright?

I hope I will be able to also get more pictures from the seller.

 

[doctor Bob]

I have a cp410. Also a 4 sider. the cp410 is not a great machine, it’s a pain to set up. I use the 4 sider for 95% of my stuff. If I ever replace the over and under it must have a Teresa block.

 

[PeterPan]

I have a cp410. Also a 4 sider. the cp410 is not a great machine, it’s a pain to set up. I use the 4 sider for 95% of my stuff. If I ever replace the over and under it must have a Teresa block.

Thank you for your answer. Do you consider the CP not a great machine just for the annoying set up? I assume by set up, you mean changing the knives, or?

 

[clogs]

Peter,
just how much extra would you need to pay for a "better machine"
if it's say 600 or more euro's, would that not make it worth the trouble to service and tune it up.....
personally I'd buy it if cheap enough and spend the extra on a better knife system and any bearings.....
the way I think is that if a better machine cost 800 euros, remember that will be worn as well or pay a few hundred for this one and spend the difference fixing it.....this way you will have an as new machine for the same money....

I'm sure you would be able to set it up yourself perhaps with a little help......
and besides you WILL try it out before you buy ????

 

[Sandyn]

I am not familiar with this machine, but where you have marked the image to show the fence 'misalignment ', The fence runs on a round shaft, so there is quite often a bit of rotation of the fence, when the adjustment is slack. Once the fence lever is tightened, the fence might be pulled into alignment, depending on the design. The machine looks in good condition, but you never know what problems are lurking under the surface as others have suggested.
There is obviously huge risk buying something you haven't been able to check out. I think you may find the price increases until it becomes non viable because of risk factor and shipping cost/shipping risk. Used machines seem to sell for several thousand Euros. If you got it at a silly cheap price....probably worth the risk. Good luck!!

 

[ScottandSargeant]

They are pretty reliable solid machines. This is one of the early ones but most parts shouldn’t be a problem. We can help if needed. (Sedgwick aren’t big exporters). Biggest problem we get with them is people slinging and lifting them by the surfacing tables, which can cause mis alignment, this can be resolved. If lifting the machine when not on a pallet you should put a block of wood on the thickness table then wind it up to the cutter block and feed rollers. Then sling the machine under the thicknessing table.

 

[PeterPan]

Peter,
just how much extra would you need to pay for a "better machine"
if it's say 600 or more euro's, would that not make it worth the trouble to service and tune it up.....
personally I'd buy it if cheap enough and spend the extra on a better knife system and any bearings.....
the way I think is that if a better machine cost 800 euros, remember that will be worn as well or pay a few hundred for this one and spend the difference fixing it.....this way you will have an as new machine for the same money....

I'm sure you would be able to set it up yourself perhaps with a little help......
and besides you WILL try it out before you buy ????

I set myself an upper limit for the total/end cost of getting the machine to my door (800€). Currently, I have not noticed any machine in this price range that would fit my needs or expectations (I really prefer the "old-school" cast iron type of machines
Unfortunately, I can not test it before buying, so I know it is a risk. But as Sandyn mentioned, could be worth the risk

 

[PeterPan]

I am not familiar with this machine, but where you have marked the image to show the fence 'misalignment ', The fence runs on a round shaft, so there is quite often a bit of rotation of the fence, when the adjustment is slack. Once the fence lever is tightened, the fence might be pulled into alignment, depending on the design. The machine looks in good condition, but you never know what problems are lurking under the surface as others have suggested.
There is obviously huge risk buying something you haven't been able to check out. I think you may find the price increases until it becomes non viable because of risk factor and shipping cost/shipping risk. Used machines seem to sell for several thousand Euros. If you got it at a silly cheap price....probably worth the risk. Good luck!!

Thank you very much for the info on the fence, that seems to explain it
As mentioned above, my limit is at 800€, but so far no bids were made for the machine and the current price (machine+loading fee) is at 310€. If I get lucky (thank you for the wish, nobody will actually bid for the machine. And as you mentioned, used Sedgwicks still go for quite a bit of money.

 

[PeterPan]

They are pretty reliable solid machines. This is one of the early ones but most parts shouldn’t be a problem. We can help if needed. (Sedgwick aren’t big exporters). Biggest problem we get with them is people slinging and lifting them by the surfacing tables, which can cause mis alignment, this can be resolved. If lifting the machine when not on a pallet you should put a block of wood on the thickness table then wind it up to the cutter block and feed rollers. Then sling the machine under the thicknessing table.

Thank you for the reply and consideration. I actually wondered how to safely move the machine.

Really thank you all for the lovely responses, this seems to be a helpful and supportive community.

 

[PeterPan]

Hello everybody!

I managed to contact the seller and get additional information and pictures.
I was assured the machine is running and that the infeed table is parallel to the cutter block
I hope the pictures will tell more of the story, and answer the questions I was supposed to ask. Can anyone comment on the pictures?

Regards,
Peter

 

[doctor Bob]

Thank you for your answer. Do you consider the CP not a great machine just for the annoying set up? I assume by set up, you mean changing the knives, or?

I don’t like the fact that the outfeed table is fixed. Changing blades is a real hassle. After buying a 4 sider the CP is only used for wide boards. In my opinion there are a lot better machines out there, but if u get it at a bargain price then it’s worthwhile.