sealing vase to hold water

[buzzby]

Hi Guys,

I have 12 vases in sycamore that i have turned (pics to follow once all finished). All about 11x6 inches. I need to finish them so that they will hold water as well as a finish on the outside. I'd like them to be quite hard wearing so was thinking of polyurethane for the outside or some spray lacquer but i have no idea what to do on the inside. Would polyurethane work on the inside to hold water or do i need some sort of epoxy.

I'm thinking it needs to be epoxy but i have no clue where and what one to use or even the best way to try and apply it. What have you guys done to solve this?

Also what would you recommend for the outside. I don't have a spray gun, are the spray cans any good. Again what names do people use.


Thanks

 

[Jacob]

Impossible.
I'd find some jam jars to fit inside to hold water and perhaps have a very oily finish inside (linseed oil) in case of spillage etc.
Then use anything you fancy for the outside.

 

[bugbear]

Here's a related thread, speaking of wooden drinking vessels;

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... 10&t=31303

Wooden barrels hold liquid with no sealing coat at all, so there's no reason in principle it can't be done.

BugBear

 

[Doug B]

Treatex oil

 

[Jacob]

Here's a related thread, speaking of wooden drinking vessels;

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... 10&t=31303

Wooden barrels hold liquid with no sealing coat at all, so there's no reason in principle it can't be done.

BugBear

They do it by construction detailing - staves expand into the hoops or wet turned tube shrinks onto inserted base etc. Non of them do it by finish alone.
We use turned wooden bowls for food but it's never in there for long and in between uses the wood gets a chance to dry out.

 

[CHJ]

There is nothing practical that you can coat the sycamore with that will hold water long enough to continually use as cut flower vases without them eventually showing external staining through moisture weep.

Best resign yourself to using them for dry flower arrangements.

I use tall summer drinks glasses or Larger glasses as liners for any likely to be used for cut flower use.

 

[bugbear]

Here's a related thread, speaking of wooden drinking vessels;

http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... 10&t=31303

Wooden barrels hold liquid with no sealing coat at all, so there's no reason in principle it can't be done.

BugBear

They do it by construction detailing - staves expand into the hoops or wet turned tube shrinks onto inserted base etc. Non of them do it by finish alone.
We use turned wooden bowls for food but it's never in there for long and in between uses the wood gets a chance to dry out.

I cited barrels to make the point that wood is waterproof, wether as staves, or in the solid. We make barrels,
not merely as a way of making wood waterproof, but as a way of economising on wood - it would be absurd
to hollow out a huge log to make a water container.

Robin Wood (you've heard of him) turns one-piece drinking bowls, as mentioned in the thread I posted, used for whisky!

http://www.robin-wood.co.uk/product-cat ... s-quaichs/

BugBear

 

[Beau]

2 pack epoxy varnish should do the trick. Used for the outer coating of wooden yachts so must be up to the job. Can't remember the brand we used but can look it up if you need more info.

 

[CHJ]

All barrels leak, as do the solid turned drinking vessels, it's all down to the amount that finds it's way out through the thickness of the wood.

Hence the term "The Angels Share" relating to Whisky or fortified Wine loss of 10-15% during storage/aging, and why old Barrel wood that has stored desirable beverages is sold at a premium to the crafts industry because it is impregnated with the 'bouquet' from the leaking contents.

The staining that eventually finds it way through the body of a drinking vessel may well be considered as desirable patina but is more than likely to result in ugly staining of a Vase, especially one made of a light wood like Sycamore.
Furthermore standing a wooden Vase, turned from solid, or coopered, on any surface not impervious to water damage is likely to result in surface defects within hours.

Coating the insides with epoxy or similar may well prevent significant leakage in a drinking vessel used for 20-30 mins to be a problem, that's very different to something containing water 24/7.

3-6-12 months down the line after the item has been exposed to the sun on a windowsill or near a radiator and subsequent use has caused serious damage to an expensive piece of furniture is an unfortunate way to prove the principle.

 

[buzzby]

I really didn't think it would be that hard as wooden boats can spend a lifetime in the water. I have found http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/products/epoxy-resin/epoxy-coating-resin.aspx which is waterproof once cured.

Might try and get some glass liners anyway.

I'm sure i have a memory of someone on here saying how they did it without any problems.

Ignoring the waterproof bit any advice on an outside finish?

 

[Woodmonkey]

Rustin's plastic coating seems fairly bomb proof you could try that.

 

[Beau]

I really didn't think it would be that hard as wooden boats can spend a lifetime in the water. I have found http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/products/epoxy-resin/epoxy-coating-resin.aspx which is waterproof once cured.

Completely agree.

Me and my father built a 26' boat that sits in the water 9 months of the year. We used West system epoxy but can't quite remember how the outer skin was treated. Think it was probably a few coats of the resin system followed up with 2 pack UV protecting varnish but would need to double check. The wood is completely protected from the water and stays bone dry unlike traditional boat building which relied on the boards to swell and the caulking in between for waterproofing.

 

[yorkshirepudding]

As Doug B said TREATEX is the simple answer. The late Mark Raby used to sell Treatex and recommended it highly. I think his wife Lisa has taken over sales of it. I know other wood turners who have used it successfully.

 

[buzzby]

Treatex looks interesting although i am not sure it can be bought online. Web sites says its only water resistant rather than proof. Could be a nice all in one as they do a stain as well.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Probably obvious, but there is a rather important difference between a turned vessel and a boat or coopered barrel, which is end grain exposed to the liquid. Also the design of a barrel means that if the wood absorbs water the joints tighten. If tbe wood of a turned vase absorbs water it will swell and possibly further crack the finish.

I have made goblets and bowls that I can (and sometimes do) drink and eat from, but it's not the same as continually holding water. I have sealed some of them using beeswax melted in with a hot air gun, but still my ash goblet leaked ever so slightly .. but it had been used for mead, apple brandy and red wine over the course of a (very good ) evening before it did.

 

[CHJ]

Treatex looks interesting although i am not sure it can be bought online. Web sites says its only water resistant rather than proof. Could be a nice all in one as they do a stain as well.

I wonder why the manufacturer says this:-

Treatex® Hardwax Oil. Protect and enhance the natural beauty of wood with Treatex Hardwax Oil. Suitable for all types of internal joinery including floors, stairs,

Could it be that it is not suitable for exterior or prolonged wet conditions.

Hard Wax oils are fine for something like a dry vase as far as handling is concerned, the level of gloss can be adjusted by the number of coats applied.
They will certainly accept the odd water splash if wiped up fairly quickly before any has time to significantly penetrate any small pores but the occasional dressing with carnauba wax to fill any pores appearing due to wood movement is beneficial if in a kitchen environment for instance.

Personally I think the oils look better on darker woods, not so sure that Sycamore would look attractive treated with oil if it absorbs it to differing depths on long and end grain areas.

I'm sure that if the use of marine finishes or the like were an economical proposition for sealing Wooden Vases and Water containers we would regularly see them in the high street Homeware Fashion Houses.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I can't speak for Treatex, but I have used Osmo and Fiddes. I wouldn't say either of them was anything like waterproof - water resistant, yes.

 

[Doug B]

As Doug B said TREATEX is the simple answer. The late Mark Raby used to sell Treatex and recommended it highly. I think his wife Lisa has taken over sales of it. I know other wood turners who have used it successfully.

It was Mark I saw using Treatex, he said the manufacturer didn't recommend the oil for vases but he did & to prove it he had several vessels that he filled with various liquids that he left standing through out his demo & not a drop seeped through.

 

[dickm]

he filled with various liquids that he left standing through out his demo & not a drop seeped through.

Isn't that the key - "during his demo"? As others have said, keeping liquid in for an hour or so is very different from keeping water in a vase for possibly a week or so.

 

[CHJ]

It was Mark I saw using Treatex, he said the manufacturer didn't recommend the oil for vases but he did & to prove it he had several vessels that he filled with various liquids that he left standing through out his demo & not a drop seeped through.

That's a big difference to leaving them for several days with a bunch of flowers in them though Doug, it won't take a visible leak to penetrate the wood sufficiently to spoil the external appearance of a polished Vase. That's apart from the damage that may result to any surface it's stood on because the base won't have the advantage of surface evaporation to dry it out.

Very few woods in my experience are enhanced in appearance by water mark stains.