Scroll saw blade problem

[charity man]

Hi, I am a new member and would like some help with a small problem on my scroll saw, it is only 2 months old and have noticed today that when the saw is running the up and down movement off the blade is like looking at two blades, I have to move the wood up to the blade to get it to start in a straight line, any advice would be helpful, the saw is a proxxon and has hardly any vibration, Thanks.

 

[Claymore]

Hi,
Are you using pinned blades or pinless? also you could try cutting into a blank piece of wood approx 1cm try and keep as straight as possible.... then turn off your saw and place the piece of wood behind the blade and try and slide the cut slot onto the rear of the blade, if your saw is cutting square it should slide on easily and the wood should remain flat on the table (if its not square then it will be difficult to slide it on and it may be uneven)
My first saw an Einhell/Parkside wouldn't cut without vibrating and like yours the blade seemed to move sideways as it cut, I returned the saw as it was the top arm that was actually bent and not parallel the replacement they sent wasn't any better so my wife got me an Axminster and the difference was incredible. I have heard of others on here with similar problems but not sure if any managed to sort the problem. The Proxxon gear are usually excellent so it might just be a case of adjusting your saw etc. What model saw do you have? If we can see a photo of the model it we might be able to spot where to adjust etc.
Cheers and welcome to the forum
Brian
ps What's ya name?

 

[Aggrajag]

Yeah I had an Einhell too and even though I'd got the blade aligned perfectly vertical it still moved left to right as it was cutting. In the end I got a replacement machine under guarantee but never opened it as I'd bought a better one whilst waiting.

First things first, use a tri-square and check your blade is vertical - if not adjust the table until it is. Move the arm up and down manually and check it remains vertical throughout.

 

[martinka]

It could, hopefully, be something simple like the top and bottom blade clamps out of line with each other. If the saw has the blade clamps bolted to the arms with a single bolt, you may be able to slacken the bolts and bring the clamps into line.

 

[charity man]

Hi, all thank you for the helpful tips have tried most off them, have realigned the top and bottom blade holders and still the same with either type off blade have tried moving the arms up and down with a blade in place and square and find that there is 3mm movement from the bottom off the stroke to the top, did some practice cuts on the full movement off the blade and it seems to cut at an angle on the bottom half off the blade, so not much idea what to try next, the saw is the proxxon dsh, thanks again John.

 

[AES]

Hullo charity man, welcome to the forum.

I do not have a Proxxon saw but all their tools generally have a very high reputation. If you've tried all the problems listed above and if the saw is only 2 months old it sounds like you have a problem which you should deal with by taking it to the retailer you bought it from and making a claim under the Warranty/Guarantee. The blade should not move side to side anything like 3 mm under normal circumstances - in fact with a reputation like Proxxon's I'd expect a side to side movements of precisely nil! (assuming the blade - any blade - is correctly tensioned and assuming you're not deliberately pushing it off to one side).

HTH, good luck

AES

 

[Aggrajag]

I don't know the model but is it pinless? If so you might have the top two grip screws set imbalanced from the bottom 2 gripping screws?

 

[martinka]

I definitely agree with AES, take it back under warranty. Parallel arm scroll saws are simple machines so something has to be really adrift for the blade to be 3mm out. Possibly a bent arm or a bearing damaged/out of place.

 

[charity man]

Hi, all thank you for the advice have had a reply from the company and they have given me extra adjustment to make which has solved the problem, saw now working as it should be, thanks again John.

 

[Claymore]

That's great news John! now its time to enjoy yourself and make some dust! lol
Cheers
Brian

 

[AES]

That's good news, thanks for telling us. As (I think) not many people have the Proxxon saw, can you take some pix of what was wrong and what the new adjustment was please? Then we'll have it here to refer to in future if someone else has a problem with the same saw.

AES

 

[RickSmith2020]

Hi all. Old forum I know, but I’ve identified the problem with side to side blade movement in my Einhell after hours of head scratching. It’s the eccentric block! The face that the plate with the 2 bearings bolts to is not machined perpendicular to the motor shaft that it mounts to. Therefore with each rotation, it causes the bottom arm to pull to the side about 3mm. I solved it by mounting the eccentric block on an 8mm brass bar on my lathe and taking a grinder to it until it spun true. Hey presto! No more side to side movement. Hope that all makes sense and saves someone the hours of frustration I had! Rick

 

[RickSmith2020]

Hi all. Old forum I know, but I’ve identified the problem with side to side blade movement in my Einhell after hours of head scratching. It’s the eccentric block! The face that the plate with the 2 bearings bolts to is not machined perpendicular to the motor shaft that it mounts to. Therefore with each rotation, it causes the bottom arm to pull to the side about 3mm. I solved it by mounting the eccentric block on an 8mm brass bar on my lathe and taking a grinder to it until it spun true. Hey presto! No more side to side movement. Hope that all makes sense and saves someone the hours of frustration I had! Rick

PS Because some material was ground off the eccentric plate, it required a bit of experimentation with washers to replace lost material.

 

[AES]

Well done for fixing your Einhell RickSmith2020!

I had an Einhell (not the current model, but pretty similar) and on mine the (cast) upper arm was warped - I guess it came out of the mould while still too warm. Being cast, and looking very much like "pot metal" material I didn't try to straighten the arm, but by fettling the various other parts, especially the blade holders and their mounts, I was able to significantly reduce (but not eliminate) the side-to-side movements of the blade.

When I bought a new Excalibur 21 (5+ years ago now) I gave the Einhell to a girlfriend of my wife who was interested in scrolling herself (AFTER I'd given the lady some "schooling" on that saw in my own shop)!

NOT a good saw, but it does saw wood and it's still in use.

With that experience, and based on several other Einhell machines I've seen, they are all far away from being "great" but can be made to work OK - "after a fashion"!

Well done for fixing yours.

 

[RickSmith2020]

Well done for fixing your Einhell RickSmith2020!

I had an Einhell (not the current model, but pretty similar) and on mine the (cast) upper arm was warped - I guess it came out of the mould while still too warm. Being cast, and looking very much like "pot metal" material I didn't try to straighten the arm, but by fettling the various other parts, especially the blade holders and their mounts, I was able to significantly reduce (but not eliminate) the side-to-side movements of the blade.

When I bought a new Excalibur 21 (5+ years ago now) I gave the Einhell to a girlfriend of my wife who was interested in scrolling herself (AFTER I'd given the lady some "schooling" on that saw in my own shop)!

NOT a good saw, but it does saw wood and it's still in use.

With that experience, and based on several other Einhell machines I've seen, they are all far away from being "great" but can be made to work OK - "after a fashion"!

Well done for fixing yours.

Thanks

 

[RickSmith2020]

Thanks AES. Yep, I definitely wouldn’t recommend it. It appears as though the body is identical to just about every other cheap scroll saw on the market. I wonder if they all suffer from similar problems. My sister in law has showed an interest in scrolling, so as soon as I get an upgrade I reckon it’s hers! As you said it’s not a great saw, but it does cut wood.
Off to research that Excaliber 21 now!
Cheers, Rick

 

[AES]

@RickSmith 2020. Yep, the Einhell, along with VERY MANY (if not all?) scroll saws down at the cheapo end of the market all seem to come from the same one or two Chinese factories - differences being only in the number of "goodies" included/excluded (flexy light, etc); colour; and badges. I don't suppose that all of them suffer from warped arms, but certainly, all are made "down to" a price, regarding materials and machining, deburring, assembly, etc.

As Aldi and Lidl both have similar machines for sale from time to time, and as both have a no-quibble 3 year guarantee, I'd suggest anyone looking at that end of the market for a new machine look no further - assuming they can wait for them to come back into stock at their local Aldi or Lidl branch.

Re the Excalibur, mine is the 21 inch model and I'm absolutely delighted with it. Not one moment of trouble; the angle-tilting head (rather than the angle-tilting table on most other machines) is brilliant - more useful than you'd probably think; it'll take all pinned and pinless blades (not to mention bits of broken band saw and hacksaw blades!); and spares are very reasonably priced.

BUT I don't think they're sold in UK now (I bought mine in Germany anyway). When I bought mine 5+ years ago now, the UK dealer/distributor for the "real" Excalibur (like mine) was Axminster Tools.

BUT about 3 years ago, Axi brought out what looks in their pictures exactly like my Excalibur, but with their own label and model number on it.

When I first heard that I was a bit peeved because that Axi version was quite a bit cheaper that what I paid in Germany.

HOWEVER, since then there have been posts from several different members on here who bought the Axi version but subsequently had a lot of mechanical and vibration problems I seem to remember that at least 2 separate members here had to have their machines replaced by Axi under Warranty.

So it looks like Axi have got the manufacturer (who is in Taiwan BTW, same as mine) to somehow or other "cheapen" the original Excalibur like mine.

I don't know that for a fact, but if you go back through the history in this Scroll Saw section of the Forum for about the last 2+ years you'll see quite a few rather worrying posts from several members.

There are also a series of posts by me about 5 years ago now explaining why I bought my Excalibur (I actually tested it for a couple of hours alongside a Hegner Multi Speed). I can find those and give the link/s, but before that i suggest you search here for the lowdown on the "new" Axi version of the Excalibur (their new model numbers are - "Trade Scroll Saws AT 406SS, AT 535SS, and AT 762SS).

HTH

 

[RickSmith2020]

@RickSmith 2020. Yep, the Einhell, along with VERY MANY (if not all?) scroll saws down at the cheapo end of the market all seem to come from the same one or two Chinese factories - differences being only in the number of "goodies" included/excluded (flexy light, etc); colour; and badges. I don't suppose that all of them suffer from warped arms, but certainly, all are made "down to" a price, regarding materials and machining, deburring, assembly, etc.

As Aldi and Lidl both have similar machines for sale from time to time, and as both have a no-quibble 3 year guarantee, I'd suggest anyone looking at that end of the market for a new machine look no further - assuming they can wait for them to come back into stock at their local Aldi or Lidl branch.

Re the Excalibur, mine is the 21 inch model and I'm absolutely delighted with it. Not one moment of trouble; the angle-tilting head (rather than the angle-tilting table on most other machines) is brilliant - more useful than you'd probably think; it'll take all pinned and pinless blades (not to mention bits of broken band saw and hacksaw blades!); and spares are very reasonably priced.

BUT I don't think they're sold in UK now (I bought mine in Germany anyway). When I bought mine 5+ years ago now, the UK dealer/distributor for the "real" Excalibur (like mine) was Axminster Tools.

BUT about 3 years ago, Axi brought out what looks in their pictures exactly like my Excalibur, but with their own label and model number on it.

When I first heard that I was a bit peeved because that Axi version was quite a bit cheaper that what I paid in Germany.

HOWEVER, since then there have been posts from several different members on here who bought the Axi version but subsequently had a lot of mechanical and vibration problems I seem to remember that at least 2 separate members here had to have their machines replaced by Axi under Warranty.

So it looks like Axi have got the manufacturer (who is in Taiwan BTW, same as mine) to somehow or other "cheapen" the original Excalibur like mine.

I don't know that for a fact, but if you go back through the history in this Scroll Saw section of the Forum for about the last 2+ years you'll see quite a few rather worrying posts from several members.

There are also a series of posts by me about 5 years ago now explaining why I bought my Excalibur (I actually tested it for a couple of hours alongside a Hegner Multi Speed). I can find those and give the link/s, but before that i suggest you search here for the lowdown on the "new" Axi version of the Excalibur (their new model numbers are - "Trade Scroll Saws AT 406SS, AT 535SS, and AT 762SS).

HTH

Thank you for the in depth reply and the heads up on the Excalibur!
My dad loaned me his old scroll saw to try out today, a Naerok SS16. I said “wow that must’ve been an expensive one!” Nope. He said it was bottom of the line when he bought it in the early 90s. I guess cheapo was a lot better quality then than it is now. It’s very heavy, well built with cast iron bed and the blade has no side to side movement, and no discernable front to back movement. A really nice machine compared to my Einhell.
I must admit when I researched the Excalibur, I realised it’s out of my price range, for now anyway. I’m not doing terribly intricate work, but the Einhell I think will never be able to do what I need it to. I’ll definitely have a look at them Axminster trade ones. We have an Axminster dealer here in Ireland, about 2 hours away from me. Could take a trip up there and make a day of it.
Thanks again for all your help. Muchly appreciated! Rick