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Scribing to a stone wall

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Prizen

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I am failing to understand the above. Sorry for being slow, can you explain this? Never heard of tiles being used before
 

baldkev

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I think he thinks you are tiling.....
On second thoughts, go to ikea and get a freestanding unit 😆😂 or sell your house and buy one with a built in cupboard 😉
 

Jacob

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I am failing to understand the above. Sorry for being slow, can you explain this? Never heard of tiles being used before
Sounds like "tick sticking" for tilers. Very similar
 

JSW

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Scribing a board with a pencil and an axe is (was) well known trad technique. I was taught how to do it and it was one of the main uses for a carpenters axe. I used it most often for scribing inside linings of sash windows during restoration work - they need to be a good fit for plastering.
It's a forgotten art @Jacob, 45-50 years ago every site joiner had an axe in their tool bass, usually a Stanley Steelmaster as I recall.
Skirtings, architraves, door/window linings, twist/propellor wedges for brick seams, hell we even used to take the bulk off external doors if they were overly too wide for the opening. If you knew how to use one correctly, it would be a pass or two with a No. 4 1/2 to perfect.
 

baldkev

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It's a forgotten art @Jacob, 45-50 years ago every site joiner had an axe in their tool bass, usually a Stanley Steelmaster as I recall.
Skirtings, architraves, door/window linings, twist/propellor wedges for brick seams, hell we even used to take the bulk off external doors if they were overly too wide for the opening. If you knew how to use one correctly, it would be a pass or two with a No. 4 1/2 to perfect.
It definitely is a lost art. I know boat builders still use adze etc, but less common now. In my 24/ 25 years on sites i have never once seen an axe or adze used. I guess planers, jigsaws etc took that role away.
 

Jacob

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It's a forgotten art @Jacob, 45-50 years ago every site joiner had an axe in their tool bass, usually a Stanley Steelmaster as I recall.
Skirtings, architraves, door/window linings, twist/propellor wedges for brick seams, hell we even used to take the bulk off external doors if they were overly too wide for the opening. If you knew how to use one correctly, it would be a pass or two with a No. 4 1/2 to perfect.
Yes I'd forgotten about chopping wedges! And lots of other trimming jobs. Axe still really useful but one thing which nobody would miss is the star chisel. I think I bought the last one from a local hardware shop and he wondered why I wanted it as everybody had hammer drills, before SDS drills which came along later
 

Phill05

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Jacob, These young'un today don't know about the finer things i used a axe for almost everything roughed out then finished with hand planes, I still have my two axes one for the workshop and one for the site bag and I also still have my pleaching axe when called on to work the hedges.

For scribeing to stone I used a wedge pointed end into stone cut a V out for pencil when offered to deepest gap and away you go trim out with axe tidy up with chisel whatever made it look right job done no messing about.
 

Oakay

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The process is to 'offer up' the strip to the wall - scribe a pencil line running your finger along - cut the line - offer up again - cut the line again - as many times as it takes to get a fit to keep the old lady happy.
Easiest to rough most of it out with a carpenters axe until you get to fine details then a block plane etc.
Not easiest any more, I think the jigsaw has superceded it. Here is advice for anyone wanting to use a jigsaw for an accurate result:
Position your work or template next to the wall absolutely plumb, temporarily fixing it if necessary so it is perfectly steady. Use an appropriate scrap with a point on it (to rub against the wall) with a sawcut for your pencil to rest in at a minimum distance which clears the whole scribe gap, to draw an offset scribe line onto your work, or use compasses if you prefer (I prefer the wood or ply scrap) being careful to keep horizontal while performing the scribe (temporary horizontal pencil lines at intervals on your work or template can help you maintain level while performing the scribe) then when you have a good scribe line drawn, use a sharp 244D (Bosch reference) jigsaw blade in a jigsaw set at an appropriate undercut angle (protecting your work with paper, card or masking tape, to prevent risk of scratching the face of your work) and a near-perfect scribe is possible with skill. The 244D jigsaw blade is great because it is sharp cutting, reasonably aggressive so good chip clearance, fairly narrow and with enough kerf set to make fairly tight turns without burning. The 101B is better for finer work across the grain if there are no tight curves, but for a stone wall, or for scribing around skirtings, the 244D is definately the blade for regular use. They can break on heavy work so the deeper 144D is good for long straighter rip cuts. Correct blade for purpose makes a big difference, and try to let the blade cut its natural direction as the tendency by inexperienced users is to put pressure toward the pencil line which puts a bend in the blade and causes unwanted friction, heat and bends the cut, so just steer to the line, don't push the machine sideways against it.
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Doug71

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These days whenever possible I cut from underneath with my jigsaw when doing scribes, it seems easier to follow the line and no problem with splintering on the face side.

Most linings, infills, skirtings etc are MDF these days, not sure how well the old faithful axe would work on MDF 🤔
 

Jacob

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...

Most linings, infills, skirtings etc are MDF these days, not sure how well the old faithful axe would work on MDF 🤔
Not very well I expect.
The axe depends on hacking a notch and then splitting off the waste along the grain, which is why it can be so quick, if you get the notches in the right place with respect to the grain!
No grain on mdf or ply so I guess you'd have to hack every inch of your way
 

Ollie78

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I like the "laminate flooring" fine toothed jigsaw blades for scribing, Dart ones are nice.

Ollie
 

quintain

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It may be because I'm getting older but I find reducing the number of times I have to move heavy things into/out of position makes my body complain less the following morning :p

As a consequence, for anything that's heavy, bulky or awkward to move, I normally scribe & cut a large piece of stiff cardboard (sometimes with a batten attached to aid rigidity) to get the correct shape, then transfer that line to the 'real' surface, make an initial cut just inside that line to remove the bulk and then refine it from there.
I like cardboard as well. I keep any stiffish cardboard and use it when I need to scribe any rough irregular edging/shapes. Just attach it with tape to what is gong to be the finished surface edge about 2 or 3" back from where the timber cut edge will be worked. It is easier to work with a knife or scissors and if I make a mistake just put another piece over it under the original and try again.
Only when I am happy with the scribed line do I transfer it to the timber.
 

Jacob

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Thing is - doing a template means doing the job twice.
Oakey's example above, board vertical against a wall, is the ideal axe scenario and involves minimal work.
You hold the board up to the wall with your left hand, scribe a line with a pencil in your right hand, with the back of your forefinger up to the stone, put down pencil, pick up axe and start scribing. Do this with the board still in your left hand and the bottom end on a bit of scrap After a quick roughing out put it up to the wall again and note visually where you need to take more off, or pencil mark/scribe it if you have to, and repeat the op.
Fine adjust the undercut edge by using the axe like a draw knife - the board hasn't left your left hand and you have stood in the same spot throughout. Or pick up a block plane and use it across the edge, not along it, with the board on a saw stool, knee and left hand as hold downs.
No messing about with template, router, jigsaw etc.
 

Prizen

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Thanks for all the replies. The boss changed mind and now doesn’t want a scribed line. She still wants it “fitted” though. I think perhaps a face frame with the stiles straight lines against the jagged stone. Of course there’ll be gaps, but she’s now convinced that this will look better than a fully scribed fit. I tend to agree
 

Doug71

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Thanks for all the replies. The boss changed mind and now doesn’t want a scribed line. She still wants it “fitted” though. I think perhaps a face frame with the stiles straight lines against the jagged stone. Of course there’ll be gaps, but she’s now convinced that this will look better than a fully scribed fit. I tend to agree
Another option so you don't get out of the scribing that easily!

It depends on the colour of cabinet/stone etc but I have done similar and painted the infill matt black or a dark grey which creates a kind of shadow line so it looks freestanding but is still fitted so you don't have the problems of dirt and dust getting down the sides (this is why women like built in furniture).
 

JSW

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Another option so you don't get out of the scribing that easily!

It depends on the colour of cabinet/stone etc but I have done similar and painted the infill matt black or a dark grey which creates a kind of shadow line so it looks freestanding but is still fitted so you don't have the problems of dirt and dust getting down the sides (this is why women like built in furniture).
+1 for a shadow line/margin. Set the scribe back a few mill and your eye won't be drawn to any inaccuracy of the cut
 

Jacob

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More on wooden plugs/grounds here Axe cut wall plugs?
My "joiners" axe here. Spear & Jackson. Weighs about 1.5 lbs. Not sure what the 1/4 stands for.

Official MSC issue about 1982.
Sharpened freehand on coarse side of a Norton No. "0" oil stone. There's a bit of a knack to sharpening but once you've got it it's easy. Ends up with a deeply hollowed stone, which is no problem.

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IMG_4483.JPG
 

Oakay

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I have a small axe (pic below) but never used it for joinery, just a general garden-shed axe to split kindling or to hammer with on the blunt end, but hardly used anymore and rusty. Different shape, probably is intended for splitting kindling. The dynamics of shape and balance for different purposes is interesting. Hammers as well are frequently altered in design, but these days I think more for fashion than true benefit. Even cordless drill shape and balance, I do not really like the current models, preferring the shape of those in vogue 20 years ago for balance in the hand, so pressure could be exerted closer to the line of the drill-bit, but of course the power and other improvements of recent models have moved forwards apace, and shorter length is an advantage. I digress but the point being not all improvements these days are better, and there are probably good reasons for the different shaping in these axes, developed over many years for particular different uses.
I think this kindling axe is designed more for the lay-man, wide blade so easier to hit the target whereas a joiner is more skilled and can use an axe with more of the weight concentrated in the focussed smaller area.
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