Saw Choice tenon/carcass

[graween]

Hi All.
Happy new year and all the best to you !

I'm writing this topic, because Santa has brought me some financial budget to buy some tools. Yes even if it's the crisis 8)

I think I'll go for 2 saws. A carcass saw and a tenon saw. But I hesitate between the different models.

First for the tenon saw. I'm interested in the western type, like the Lie-Nielsen tenon saw (or Adria, etc). But it exists in 2 sizes 12" and 14". . My problem is that the 12 has a cut depht of 3 and the 14 a depth of 3 and 5/8.
I do hesitate between the two depth and lenght. I'm afraid the 14 would be too big, and then difficult for me to manipulate. Some people says the bigger, the easier to user (Chris Shwartz), but I'm not convinced. But you can do bigger tenons so it could do more stuff than the smaller one. Also the 12 one, is only a little bigger than my dovetail saw (just under 2"), so would it be useful ? Also does the 10 tpi leave an acceptable surface ?
I don't really know which size is right. I do all kind of stuff, not specifically small furniture or only big ones.

Second for the carcass saw. I'm wondering a little like for the tenon saw and for the same reasons, if it is better to get like the carcass saw 11" long and 2 1/4 depth with 15 tpi or would it be a better choice to get the small tenon saw crosscut 13 tpi and 12" long with 3" depth cut. I think you don't need a really deep saw for crosscut. But a longer one could be better ? Also would the 13 tpi be enough to leave a fine results or is it better to get 15tpi ?

Finally two last thoughts. Theses saws are well rated in hardwoods, but are they working fine in soft woods ? Also does some one own the pax tenon saws ? The 1776 models look fine, but they don't precise the depth of cut on the web site. So I'dont know. However they're not avaliable in 14" length, but they cost less.

Please help me I'm kind of lost here and really don't know what to pick. Also, I tend to choose fewer tools but of good quality and do all with them.

Thanks a lot fo your help, especially since these question come up very often.
Graween.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I'm far from expert (though a visit with Woodbloke certainly helped) but I'm now using a 19" tenon saw which I find great - the extra height makes it easier to gauge plumb.
I think the truism about using the largest tool that'll do the job holds good in this case.
Softwoods will commonly need a little more set to prevent binding (guess because of the relatively fluffy cut) - but this shouldn't be a problem as mass sawmakers will use a little more set than might be necessary for a rosewood/ebony/etc so that it suits the greatest range of customers.
How fine a cut surface you need will depend on whether you saw to the shoulder line or finish with a chisel (or, um, shoulder plane) If the former, beaver teeth set in a stick with pitch would work, otherwise sharpness and even tooth height and set seem to matter most.
Given that it may need to cut some fairly long kerfs, I'd go for the larger, lower tpi.
Guru types will follow
Cheers
Steve

 

[Harbo]

What you have not really covered is if you want rip or crosscut.
If you read Chris Schwarz's article on Western Backsaws in the Spring Woodworking mag. historically, the Dovetail and Tenon saws were filed for rip cut - the Carcass and Sash saws were filed cross cut.

If you are buying the two types and already have a rip D/T? I would go for a 15TPI cross cut 12" carcass and a 14" rip 13TPI Tenon.
If you want them both the same sizes then go for a rip and a cross cut of the same type?

If they cut fine in hardwoods they will certainly cope with soft.

No knowledge of the PAX but I have a pair of Wenzloffs (D/T & Carcass) and a similar pair of Gramercys (still to make up). Several Tenons and assorted types of Tyzacks, S&J's, Disston, Crown, Rose & Alexander.
I am not a collector honest

Rod

 

[graween]

Thanks for the replies.
We'll see what other says also.

Rod, sorry if it wasn't clear but yes I'm talking about crosscut teeth for carcass and rip teeth for the tenon saw.
What you indicate is what I was thinking about the large tenon rip (14) and the 12" carcass crosscut.

Thanks Steeve, I was wondering if the larger saw is really hard to control or finally if the wider is the easier. 19" is overkill for me I think, also, not really available in mass produced saw. And I don't want to wait for Mike Wenzloff saws, since it looks like that the waiting time is ..... long

Graween.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Could always chop 7" off of a 26" mitre saw and refile it rip - agree that even waiting to get a round tuit could be quicker (IIRC my 19" was B/O'd with TBT for about 7 months - but worth the wait)
It feels unwealdy compared to a cute little DT, purely because of the weight - but then it touches wood and feels like it has inbuilt gyroscopes.