Sapele,Cedar, Iroko..

[GrahamIreland]

Hello, probably been asked a thousand times, but are there many differences in these timbers, and if so why?

Im looking do an outdoor small door for a friends boat.
I've previously used iroko, but thought we'd use sapele on this occasion.

Are there much difference in price, hardness, etc?

Thanks

 

[Mike Jordan]

Sapele and Iroko are about the same price normally. Sapele has always been a little cheaper than utile and is a little more difficult to work without tear out . Iroko is easy to work and will normally last thirty years in outside use. It MUST be glued with epoxy glue and you need to understand that it changes colour when shown the light over time. This photo shows a piece oxidised on the outside face and yellow on the freshly cut face.

Google Iroko to find out more.
Cedar is good for sheds and greenhouses.

 

[That would work]

Iroko is as you will know a kind of poor mans teak in that it has similar durability. Sapele would be absolutely fine for this,with the usual maintenance of yacht varnish of course. Mahogany (not the same but very similar to sapele) is the second most common joinery timber for yacht work after teak) Cedar is also very durable although nothing like as hard wearing so I would not recommend for yacht joinery purposes. I cannot comment on cost as I have not bought any of these timbers for a while (if ever! :wink: ).
On the above comment on adhesive for iroko, the usual one for any (external) use is resorcinol formaldehyde.

 

[GrahamIreland]

Is cedar different to iroko.. confusing!

ok, great, I'll give the Sapele a go.
The door is about 90cm square, so thinking a 3" x 1"frame,
There are slight angles - so I better mortice and tenon ya? I wouldn't get away with half lap would I?

Graham

 

[MikeG.]

....... I wouldn't get away with half lap would I?.......

You did say this was for a friend. Therefore mortise & tenon.

 

[That would work]

Cedar (whichever type) is very different to iroko. Iroko is hard, heavy and has a justified reputation for having very fine and potentially health damaging dust. Cedar is none of those things by comparison.
Definitely use mortice and tenons (through preferably).

 

[Mike Jordan]

At that size I would suggest M & T joints a centre rail and a material thickness of 35mm. If it's glazed it needs to be laminated glass.

 

[MikeG.]

Cedar is so different from iroko and sapele as to be pretty much incomparable. I'd be very wary of using it for a door. It's soft, and a thumbnail will leave a permanent indentation. In fact, it's so different that although you wrote cedar, my mind told me you'd written teak...the marine timber-of-choice which you might have considered for the job if there were any sustainable supplies left on the planet.

 

[samhay]

Cedar (whichever type) is very different to iroko. Iroko is hard, heavy and has a justified reputation for having very fine and potentially health damaging dust. Cedar is none of those things by comparison.

While I won't disagree with most of this, the dust from western red cedar is also quite nasty. Seems to cause an alergic reaction in quite a few folk.

 

[GrahamIreland]

Cheers fellas, no Sapele was the initial plan, for its reddish hue.

Might get 36mm think.

Thanks.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you want a bit more colour, sapele takes red and orange spirit stains brilliantly. I surprised myself a couple of weeks ago by using an orange one (Morrells) on a recycled piece that had faded a bit - it turned out quite red.

 

[Keith 66]

As Samhay says, Western red cedar is nasty stuff, just as bad as Iroko if not worse, I have to be extremely careful if machining or sanding it following a scare about 15 years ago. I will not touch a sander or saw to it without a respirator.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Iroko is easy to work and will normally last thirty years in outside use. It MUST be glued with epoxy glue and you need to understand that it changes colour when shown the light over time.

I made my front door from Iroko, glued with Extramite - a Cascamite clone. No special preparation. Must be at least 18 years old, and still in one piece. Perhaps I'm lucky.

It does really fade in the sun though. Even with the Osmo sun block stuff.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I have an Iroko garden bench that has lasted 24 years of real neglect , that was glued with Cascamite. I've just thrown out 1.5 Kg pot of Polyvine Cascamite which took four days to go rubbery on test, it ain't the same animal! I'm only prepared to trust epoxy today.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Ahh. Why is it that necessary to reformulate (==cock up) any decent product these days ?

 

[TheTiddles]

Ahh. Why is it that necessary to reformulate (==cock up) any decent product these days ?

For namby-pamby reasons like public safety and the future habitability of our planet, trivial things like that usually

Aidan

 

[sunnybob]

Is cedar different to iroko.. confusing!

ok, great, I'll give the Sapele a go.
The door is about 90cm square, so thinking a 3" x 1"frame,
There are slight angles - so I better mortice and tenon ya? I wouldn't get away with half lap would I?

Graham

=D> =D> =D> =D>

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Ahh. Why is it that necessary to reformulate (==cock up) any decent product these days ?

For namby-pamby reasons like public safety and the future habitability of our planet, trivial things like that usually

Bit late to worry about either, I fear.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I made a step ladder to go down into a swimming pool from iroko. It was taken out when the pool was refurbished twenty years later - it was still perfect.

 

[AndyT]

Ahh. Why is it that necessary to reformulate (==cock up) any decent product these days ?

For namby-pamby reasons like public safety and the future habitability of our planet, trivial things like that usually

Bit late to worry about either, I fear.

I thought we'd established that the root problem was that one of the base ingredients was made in Iraq. Apparently exporting glue to woodworkers isn't Iraq's top priority at the moment.