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Rabbet / Moving fillister plane - Advice

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Helvetica

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Hi folks, I'm having trouble getting a level 1/16" rebate cut on a 1" board. I have a record Moving fillister plane, pretty sharp, blade level, but I tend to cut a sloping rebate (thinner on the edge). I try to put more pressure on the inside with mixed results. Any tips on cutting a nice, clean, level rebate? (rabbet?). Cutting cross grain in poplar. This is the tail board of a dovetail joint. Cheers!
 

ac445ab

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What Record type have you? 078 or 778?
Sometimes these planes have the metal fence out of square and this could be your issue.
If this is the case and you have a 778, you could add a wooden fence (there are dedicate holes for screwing it) and plane it at correct angle.
Ciao
Giuliano :D
 

DTR

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ac445ab":1z6nui3q said:
If this is the case and you have a 778, you could add a wooden fence (there are dedicate holes for screwing it) and plane it at correct angle.
Ciao
Giuliano :D
The fence on my 778 is certainly out of square, and I fixed it the same way.
 

bugbear

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ac445ab":23nezba3 said:
What Record type have you? 078 or 778?
Sometimes these planes have the metal fence out of square and this could be your issue.
If this is the case and you have a 778, you could add a wooden fence (there are dedicate holes for screwing it) and plane it at correct angle.
Ciao
Giuliano :D

If you have a wooden fence, you can also add an "Alf Dowel".

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/combihow.html

(just over half way down)

BugBear
 

Jacob

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Might be better to remove the fence after you have got the rebate started and just use the edge of the rebate as the guide, then hand and eye to stop it tilting.
NB the Record 778 is over designed, hence it's popularity with the toolies. The Stanley 078 is simpler and better and the fence covers the blade and prevents accidental cut fingers.
 

SammyQ

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Beg to differ Jacob. 778 fence (two rod) is better for maintaining paralellism to rebate edge - 'specially wiv us weekend warriors wot don't get the practice you do. Stanley with only one rod is easier to skew ...= pineapple language and boogered up work.

Sam
 

AndyT

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That's quite a shallow rebate, so you need a very nice clear gauge line to work to. (I wouldn't want to rely on just the depth stop, especially if there was a tendency to plane unevenly.)
A very good gauge for small distances is absurdly easy to make: take a scrap of wood about 2" x 3"; put a short screw in the centre of one face, and file the head of the screw until its edge is sharp. Set the distance by tightening or slackening the screw and use the edge to make the marked line. Like this:



I think a good reliable line will be a big help, whichever method you use.
 

Jacob

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Can't say I've had this skew problem. In any case I would remove the fence once the rebate is started. Makes it easier.
I haven't had that much practice TBH as it's not something I use a lot - but I did have a prolonged session concentrating on making it do what I wanted. You have to practice, rank amateur or aged professional, there's no hiding place!

Re AndyT post above - these 78 planes have their own built-in marking/scribing knife. They work really well. No need to mark separately. The trick is to draw the plane back towards you to make the first mark, without cutting.
 

bugbear

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Helvetica":3gygwwyb said:
Hi folks, I'm having trouble getting a level 1/16" rebate cut on a 1" board. I have a record Moving fillister plane, pretty sharp, blade level, but I tend to cut a sloping rebate (thinner on the edge). I try to put more pressure on the inside with mixed results. Any tips on cutting a nice, clean, level rebate? (rabbet?). Cutting cross grain in poplar. This is the tail board of a dovetail joint. Cheers!
Just to check - you're doing a cross grain rebate, 1" wide, 1/16" deep, is that right?

BugBear
 

AndyT

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Jacob":1lp8uj9f said:
Re AndyT post above - these 78 planes have their own built-in marking/scribing knife. They work really well. No need to mark separately. The trick is to draw the plane back towards you to make the first mark, without cutting.
Just to clarify - I was talking about the depth line, not the width line (ok the photo showed both!).

It would be a very clever plane that could scribe its own depth line!
 

bugbear

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AndyT":3d1ywy5j said:
Jacob":3d1ywy5j said:
Re AndyT post above - these 78 planes have their own built-in marking/scribing knife. They work really well. No need to mark separately. The trick is to draw the plane back towards you to make the first mark, without cutting.
Just to clarify - I was talking about the depth line, not the width line (ok the photo showed both!).

It would be a very clever plane that could scribe its own depth line!
I prefer to cut the shoulder of a cross grain rebate with an actual cutting gauge - my cutting gauge makes a much better cut that any of the plane mounted nickers I have. Takes no time at all.

Actually, for a wide shallow rebate, a hand router, a la Robert Wearing tenon trimming setup, might serve, in conjunction with the cutting gauge, like the way a breadboard end is done.

BugBear
 

SammyQ

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" hand router, a la Robert Wearing tenon trimming setup"

Seconded. I have tried this with my Stanley 273(?), but I also have a set of his extension rods for my Perles/Elu clone and it works a treat. You just need a "foot" of smoothish 2"x3/4" or so. Beautiful finish.

Sam
 

Jacob

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AndyT":1ojitmn9 said:
.........
Just to clarify - I was talking about the depth line, not the width line (ok the photo showed both!).

It would be a very clever plane that could scribe its own depth line!
Oh yes sorry didn't notice. Mind you - you could use it as a marking gauge, but a proper one , or your screw thing, would be handier!
bugbear":1ojitmn9 said:
.........
Actually, for a wide shallow rebate, a hand router, a la Robert Wearing tenon trimming setup, might serve, in conjunction with the cutting gauge, like the way a breadboard end is done.

BugBear
Clever, but a bit of a dodgy bodge IMHO, and slow. Wearing is a bit of a bodger! Best to get it right first time with saw or rebate plane.
 

bugbear

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Jacob":2gkg1q93 said:
AndyT":2gkg1q93 said:
.........
Just to clarify - I was talking about the depth line, not the width line (ok the photo showed both!).

It would be a very clever plane that could scribe its own depth line!
Oh yes sorry didn't notice. Mind you - you could use it as a marking gauge, but a proper one , or your screw thing, would be handier!
bugbear":2gkg1q93 said:
.........
Actually, for a wide shallow rebate, a hand router, a la Robert Wearing tenon trimming setup, might serve, in conjunction with the cutting gauge, like the way a breadboard end is done.

BugBear
Clever, but a bit of a dodgy bodge IMHO, and slow. Wearing is a bit of a bodger! Best to get it right first time with saw or rebate plane.
I was trying to offer the OP a wider range of alternatives for his task - more than one way to skin a cat - one might suit his skills/habits/preferences/tool availability.

BugBear
 

Helvetica

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thanks for the tips one and all. My plane is a 778, and the fence isn't too bad - turns out the problem was my use of the tool (not a first!). Your replies reminded me to put more pressure sideways on the fence, than downwards on the blade. I now have quite a nice rebate for my pin board (hammer) .

This debate has brought up another question for me though - I'm not marking the depth line, just using the built-in depth stop to get 1/16". I just keep planing until very few shavings are being removed. Would that be considered lazy practise, or using the tool for what it's designed for?

for clarification the width is 1", and measured by the fence (although I do mark this one with my marking gauge).

ps. I'm going to add a beech fence for more accuracy, and because I like the idea of an ever so slightly customised tool!
 

Jacob

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Helvetica":25m6wld2 said:
........... - I'm not marking the depth line, just using the built-in depth stop to get 1/16". I just keep planing until very few shavings are being removed. Would that be considered lazy practise, or using the tool for what it's designed for?....
Lazy practice and almost certainly the cause of your problem. You should always mark everything, and work to the lines (as a rule).
 

bugbear

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Helvetica":3oplg9tl said:
thanks for the tips one and all. My plane is a 778, and the fence isn't too bad
Rather good, IMHO - it's the same two-rail, full length fence found on other good tools, like the #043, #044 and#405, and most of Stanley's range;

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/combinationplanes.html

The other principle advantage and difference on the #778 is the proper screw depth adjuster, as patented by Preston. It's used on several Record tools, notably the shoulder planes.

BugBear
 

Jacob

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Should have occurred to me sooner but Paul Sellers reminded me here - splitting off this end grain rebate would probably be a lot easier and faster. Doen't have to be a clean cut as presumably it's the face hidden in the joint. Mark depth and cut width, insert wide chisel into depth mark and bobs yer uncle.

In fact any across the grain rebate is easiest done by removing the waste with a chisel, splitting from the end. Perhaps clean up with the rebate plain if paring is a problem e.g in difficult wood.
 
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