Yes, I wondered that too. If they did, it sounds a bit surprising because I would have thought that the west would be their major market, but I guess they may not even have known there is a difference.
Jim
Jim
Quangsheng V4 No.6 review
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matthewwh
Established Member
I'm still trying to persuade them to do a No. 7 next and will pass on all of the comments mentioned here which I am sure will be greatly appreciated and, in the case of suggestions, acted upon where feasible and practicable.
As soon as a Jointer plane becomes available we will stock it.
Cheers,
Matthew
http://workshopheaven.com
http://workshopheaven.blogspot.com
p.s. Does anyone else get an image of Swiss Toni from the Fast Show passing through their mind while reading Dave's review?
As soon as a Jointer plane becomes available we will stock it.
Cheers,
Matthew
http://workshopheaven.com
http://workshopheaven.blogspot.com
p.s. Does anyone else get an image of Swiss Toni from the Fast Show passing through their mind while reading Dave's review?
Tarkin
Established Member
matthewwh":1rlmg71r said:
Yes! That is exactly what I was thinking! Excellent review, I've been considering a No6 for a while, you may have just pushed me over the edge.
Saint Simon
Established Member
Just a quiet vote for supporting our UK manufacturers.
If we can afford Cliftons and the like I feel we should buy British when we can to ensure that we don't loose all our making jobs and expertise over the horizon.
Just a quiet plea.
Simon
If we can afford Cliftons and the like I feel we should buy British when we can to ensure that we don't loose all our making jobs and expertise over the horizon.
Just a quiet plea.
Simon
Kalimna
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Simon - surely a whole can of worms to be opened there. But simple economics on the part of the purchaser come into play here. For two items that aren't *really* that different in performance, £120 for one and £250 for UK made, it's a no-brainer for a lot of folk. I would love to stick to purchasing UK gear, but the options are extremely limited for doing so. Clifton planes have a good name (Ive never used one myself), but when was the last time they expanded their line of bench, shoulder planes and spokeshaves? LV/LN/Quangsheng have quality equalling Clifton (from other discussions on here) yet seem able to continually update their product line. Why couldnt Clifton do that? Particularly at their price point, they can't surely afford to rest on past laurels. The same goes for the Sheffield saw makers.
Adam
Adam
Kalimna":1er6ejj4 said:
Because planes are only a small sideline and they have other priorities. By the same token, this is probably why their planes show no innovation or new thinking which is why, leaving price aside, I would prefer to have Veritas over Clifton, QS or LN.
Jim
woodbloke
Established Member
...and also that two piece cap iron. I was using a Clifi No5 yesterday (and I had to sharpen the blade)...I still detest it :evil: - Robyetloh":234z6rnt said:
jimi43
Established Member
If Clifton were going out of business they wouldn't keep selling planes and whilst I am usually at the forefront of support for British industry...the price commanded for the job just does not meet my requirements. For those who want Sheffield quality and engineering, I think they should pay what they feel it's worth. For those that want a tool that does the job equally (?) as well...well they have the option to buy Chinese.
It's a global market and those who succeed will know what the right formula is...those who don't deserve all they get IMHO.
Now that can is well and truly open...apologies for the hijack....
Jim
Oh and FWIW...I like Veritas too!
It's a global market and those who succeed will know what the right formula is...those who don't deserve all they get IMHO.
Now that can is well and truly open...apologies for the hijack....
Jim
Oh and FWIW...I like Veritas too!
matthewwh
Established Member
We are incredibly privileged to be the first generation of woodworkers to be able to have a comparative conversation about more than two brands of serviceable planes since before the second world war. The fact that we can have that conversation with so many people is a wonder of technology and yet another thing to be grateful for. So first up, thank you to the awesome people like Alan, Tom, Shengyao and Rob, their families, their directors, and their directors families, who have personally put everything on the line to raise the bar immeasurably and make conversations like this possible.
There seems to be a protectionist tinge around Clico which is very kind but wholly unwarranted as they produce flat out the best bench planes anywhere in the world (to +/- 0.075thou though they would never admit it) . No fanfare, no song-and-dance marketing departments, just a satisfied smile and the knowledge that most people will figure it out eventually. Nobody else can heat treat a beautifully executed, slow cooled, grey iron casting to make it almost match a ductile one for unbreakability whilst kicking it's ass into orbit in terms of ridgidity (yebbut mine didn't break vs yebbut nor did mine and mine's still flat...?). Nobody else forges big fat cylindrical bars of O1 flat to make the best possible blanks for their irons and then grinds out just the best bit right in the centre of the forging. Nobody else sticks with the principle that a hardened plane iron tip, supported on three sides with soft steel or iron and subject to compression will minimise flutter in the hardened portion. Yes, they have had some cr@p luck with the floods, which has significantly hampered the expansion of the range, but thanks to some best quality pre-emptive Yorkshire prudence they are far from being on the back foot and continue to be the benchmark by which the others quietly measure themselves.
QS continue to bring extraordinary value to the party, they are investing hard and actively listening to and reacting to customer feedback (believe me nothing posted on here goes unheard). This is the first time I have worked so closely with a Chinese firm and what they lack in experience of competitive capitalist markets they more than make up for in terms of theoretical understanding, willingness to listen and also willingness to invest. If you wondered where the balance weight is for wisdom vs wit - look to the east.
Rob Lee keeps everyone else in a perpetual state of nervous disposition about whether he is about to unveil some awesome piece of intellectual genius that will further secure his place in history and make LV a fortune 500 company overnight. Let's face if if there were prizes for effort and innovation these guys would be long overdue a very, very big, very, very shiny, gong. Furthermore, I doubt they would have too much trouble knocking up a trophy cabinet to put it in. Great guys, hugely devoted to what they do and boy do they like their hockey. If anyone were looking for the 20th/21st century contribution to toolmaking they would start here.
Tom Lie-Nielsen is one of the finest human beings I have ever met in my life, I only know two people called Thomas and my son is named after both of them - considering I can't even sell his tools that is quite something! That is how much I respect this guy and the leading role he has taken in bringing the standards of a whole industry back from the brink. He was the first, the aiming point, the ass to beat, he set the bar high and then sat on it and challenged others to try and match him.
In short, this is a healthy, proactive, competitive industry being fought over by some hugely talented guys in their business prime. I don't want to be negative about the future, but let's be blunt, there hasn't been a better time to invest in a metal bench plane since they were invented - fill yer boots.
There seems to be a protectionist tinge around Clico which is very kind but wholly unwarranted as they produce flat out the best bench planes anywhere in the world (to +/- 0.075thou though they would never admit it) . No fanfare, no song-and-dance marketing departments, just a satisfied smile and the knowledge that most people will figure it out eventually. Nobody else can heat treat a beautifully executed, slow cooled, grey iron casting to make it almost match a ductile one for unbreakability whilst kicking it's ass into orbit in terms of ridgidity (yebbut mine didn't break vs yebbut nor did mine and mine's still flat...?). Nobody else forges big fat cylindrical bars of O1 flat to make the best possible blanks for their irons and then grinds out just the best bit right in the centre of the forging. Nobody else sticks with the principle that a hardened plane iron tip, supported on three sides with soft steel or iron and subject to compression will minimise flutter in the hardened portion. Yes, they have had some cr@p luck with the floods, which has significantly hampered the expansion of the range, but thanks to some best quality pre-emptive Yorkshire prudence they are far from being on the back foot and continue to be the benchmark by which the others quietly measure themselves.
QS continue to bring extraordinary value to the party, they are investing hard and actively listening to and reacting to customer feedback (believe me nothing posted on here goes unheard). This is the first time I have worked so closely with a Chinese firm and what they lack in experience of competitive capitalist markets they more than make up for in terms of theoretical understanding, willingness to listen and also willingness to invest. If you wondered where the balance weight is for wisdom vs wit - look to the east.
Rob Lee keeps everyone else in a perpetual state of nervous disposition about whether he is about to unveil some awesome piece of intellectual genius that will further secure his place in history and make LV a fortune 500 company overnight. Let's face if if there were prizes for effort and innovation these guys would be long overdue a very, very big, very, very shiny, gong. Furthermore, I doubt they would have too much trouble knocking up a trophy cabinet to put it in. Great guys, hugely devoted to what they do and boy do they like their hockey. If anyone were looking for the 20th/21st century contribution to toolmaking they would start here.
Tom Lie-Nielsen is one of the finest human beings I have ever met in my life, I only know two people called Thomas and my son is named after both of them - considering I can't even sell his tools that is quite something! That is how much I respect this guy and the leading role he has taken in bringing the standards of a whole industry back from the brink. He was the first, the aiming point, the ass to beat, he set the bar high and then sat on it and challenged others to try and match him.
In short, this is a healthy, proactive, competitive industry being fought over by some hugely talented guys in their business prime. I don't want to be negative about the future, but let's be blunt, there hasn't been a better time to invest in a metal bench plane since they were invented - fill yer boots.
jimi43
Established Member
Matt my friend...that is one of the best summaries and the most eloquent review of the quality hand tool market I have ever had the pleasure to read!
BRAVO!
Jim
BRAVO!
Jim
lanemaux
In Memorium
Here , here jimi . Matt , spoken as a true enthusiast. Well said.
Matt's pointed out some very important issues there. In order to survive in a market place, you have to offer something to differentiate your products from your rivals'. All of the companies mentioned offer something. It's up to us as buyers to decide what our priorities are and chose the vendor that best matches our requirements.
For me, I'm happy with the performance of the QS and the price is certainly easier to justify for my wallet. What is impressing me the most with them is the speed at which they are taking on suggestions and feedback. I'm sure that this must make them exciting to work with Matt as you know that have a mechanism for improving the products you sell and providing your clients with what they're after.
Dave
P.S. I've never liked the Fast Show so I didn't know about Swiss Tony. Perhaps I'll have to change my style for my next review so I end up sounding like something I like. Perhaps Heidi Klum?
For me, I'm happy with the performance of the QS and the price is certainly easier to justify for my wallet. What is impressing me the most with them is the speed at which they are taking on suggestions and feedback. I'm sure that this must make them exciting to work with Matt as you know that have a mechanism for improving the products you sell and providing your clients with what they're after.
Dave
P.S. I've never liked the Fast Show so I didn't know about Swiss Tony. Perhaps I'll have to change my style for my next review so I end up sounding like something I like. Perhaps Heidi Klum?
Racers
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Paul Chapman
Established Member
Excellent summary, Matthew =D> A similar situation exists with saws. We are indeed very fortunate.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
Cheers :wink:
Paul
wood butcher
Established Member
Well said Mathew,
There will always be a market for high end engineered hand tools and affordable hand tools and inbetween, I myself lie in the latter but but still love beautiful engineering.
There will always be a market for high end engineered hand tools and affordable hand tools and inbetween, I myself lie in the latter but but still love beautiful engineering.
Fromey
Established Member
A very interesting read Matthew. Looks like something you could add to your blog and thus get a wider audience (not out of narcissism, but because it's a message that needs to be spread). A QS plane is in my budget but with the current economic figures, I'm seriously considering a Clifton in order to support UK production (even though I'm an Ozzie).
Well said Matt!
I'm not sure I agree - there are plenty of awesome joinery saws around, sure, but we're still in the dark ages as far as hand and panel saws go. The only way to get a good big saw seems to be to buy custom made (eg Wenzloff, or Two Lawyers), or to refurbish a second hand one.Paul Chapman":1kf7phb5 said:
woodbloke
Established Member
Trizza":29r9qlru said:
...or go Japanese! Plenty of choice around including some excellent saws from Matthew. I very, very rarely use a Western style saw now as I find the oriental saws far superior - Rob
woodbloke":6k3ws3ak said:
I've got several Japanese saws and they are amazing at the sorts of cuts they are made for, but I find Western style saws far superior for stock prep. I find Western saws a lot less susceptible to binding in the cut (I almost always have to use wedges when ripping with a Japanese saw) and a lot less difficult to keep the cut planar if you're doing a long rip in thick stock. The added length is a huge bonus when doing long rips too - you can use long strokes with your entire arm so you don't have to work as furiously to achieve the same speed of cut.
But you can prise my Dozuki and my Ryoba from my cold, dead hands!
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
There are hundreds of good quality second hand saws available for very little outlay. Most need nothing but sharpening.Trizza":o5ozuxyx said:
The new ones are pretty good too.
It's difficult to NOT get a good saw. Not surprising really; there's not much to them - a very simple basic tool.
It's all down to the sharpening.
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