Cabinetman
Established Member
Dingleberry? Not a follower of YouTube. Probably why I’ve got all my fingers lol.
Push sticks again.......
- Thread starter Doug71
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This caused me pause as my sister literally called me that my entire childhood. Now that we're in our 40s and with kids, she's more polite and calls me "dingle".
johnnyb
Established Member
I was slightly sceptical about how lockdown has changed stuff until people I know had pedigree pups( an accident as it happens) and they sold them for loads more than 12 months ago. at that point I was wow something has changed. also the amount of doggy doo increased month on month on my regular walk!as did rude cyclists( what were these people doing pre lockdown? It became obvious hobbies were having a minirenaissance when people wanted to come and make stuff with me( still getting the odd( very)request. the power of the mass market is just staggering tbh. if only 0.1% of people become woodwork hobbies that's still a lot of people.
quintain
Established Member
What is the best operator safety practice for the length of a table saw fence. should it stop at:
What practical considerations determine your advice.
BTW I am attracted/tempted to the use of a long fence even reaching into my neighbours yard!!! but I am also worried about safety.
- start of cut (i.e.) just in front of saw teeth
- middle of saw blade
- end of saw blade (i.e.) just in front of rear teeth
What practical considerations determine your advice.
BTW I am attracted/tempted to the use of a long fence even reaching into my neighbours yard!!! but I am also worried about safety.
The short fence, IMO, is a critical component in eliminating kickback.
I always set my fence to around the depth of the blade gullets.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Basically set the short fence so that the workpiece goes free as soon as soon as the cut is completed. Then flip it out the way with your push stick or it may foul the movement of the next piece coming through.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
The thing about the boring standard push stick is that it is much more ergonomically shaped than it looks at first glance. Hence the many attempts to improve on it with 'shoe' shapes, gripper blocks etc. all of which are inferior - the craziest "improvement" of all being the ridiculous saw stop
Even HSE regs fall into the trap and recommends a single push stick with a very small birdsmouth but a nice overall shape
Obviously a well meant attempt by someone not all that experienced in their use.
I first heard the recommendation for two sticks on this forum very many years ago and have been doing it ever since!
Good to see how it has caught on - it used to be controversial and derided!
Even HSE regs fall into the trap and recommends a single push stick with a very small birdsmouth but a nice overall shape
Obviously a well meant attempt by someone not all that experienced in their use.I first heard the recommendation for two sticks on this forum very many years ago and have been doing it ever since!
Good to see how it has caught on - it used to be controversial and derided!
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Perfect benches is another giveaway! Though many of them start that way of course, but that's just about excusable!
Instead of plastic boxes (a.k.a. "Systainers") I tend to make my own from wood. I call them "thingtainers"
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quintain
Established Member
Thank Daniel2 & Jacob
Do I understand/summarise your recommendation as (2. ish) below:
Do I understand/summarise your recommendation as (2. ish) below:
- start of cut (i.e.) just in front of saw teeth
- Daniel2 & Jacob
- middle of saw blade
- end of saw blade (i.e.) just in front of rear teeth
Cabinetman
Established Member
Well I can see exactly where you’re coming from Jorny, there really shouldn’t be a controversy but people are being infected with quite expensive and dangerous push blocks etc shown and promoted on YouTube. To be able to use the push block you usually have to remove the crown guard and your hands pass dangerously close to the blade, when there is a kickback it’s a trip down to the hospital usually. Ian
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
People used to post up pictures of cut fingers etc but then get irritated when it was suggested that they should have used push sticks.
Ditto people using one push stick and one hand.
Not that long ago.
Imagine if you made a video and you could get:
$1k of ad revenue
$1k of link-through revenue
exposure and maybe additional revenue from mentioning something revenue linked above and beyond the link through (for example, pushing a shop apron that costs more than something similar, but where you may get $2k to mention the shop apron and fit it in something and then another 3-4% link through revenue to an amazon listing (or maybe more for a link directly to a seller's website.
Not saying that the third is occurring because it's supposed to be disclosed, but that's how these channels work. Does anyone think stumpy nubs is an accomplished woodworker vs. accomplished at pondering how to make it seem like people just need more stuff to make things?
In my opinion, none of these guys started youtube channels and just chanced into selling stuff. They started youtube channels for that first and if they'd have been unsuccessful selling stuff, it's not as if they'd be sharing stuff they've made on YT just because they enjoy it.
What's happened, though, is YT and the channel makers have realized that this is where the money is, so you direct everyone (if you're YT) to those folks. Then the google ad sense folks like it even better, because the market is not only a target market, but it's one primed to buy - not one primed to learn. It's really an ideal low-effort revenue generating setup (except that the actual pure video quality issues - the planning, editing, etc, are not low effort). But there is no need to be creative about what you're selling - just look at what other people are selling or look at what's prominently displayed on woodworking retailer websites and then work backwards.
(not saying this as someone who has a channel and is cynical that it hasn't grown - it would be a burden to have a large viewership if you just want to use your channel as a discussion forum - having a clean shop with nothing going on in it, perfect lighting and someone alive behind the camera to make sure you don't record half of it only on the right side of the screen is ...well, not that interesting to most of us.
Cabinetman
Established Member
How true, please take this as a little English leg pulling. I’ve seen one of your vids David! Let’s just say you certainly don’t set your stall out like the others.
Seems a lot more genuine btw. Ian
Seems a lot more genuine btw. Ian
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
It's the North American way. For some reason many users there are convinced that a long fence is essential, and that a rip saw works best when all the guards are removed, i.e., the riving knife or their inferior splitter and the crown guard. The they tend to believe (erroneously for the most part) they can control a piece of wood that wants to kickback with a shoe type push stick which, during the latter stages of a rip cut, places their hand very close to the exposed spinning blade.
I think the attitude comes from the tendency of North Americans to think of their saw as a multifunction tool, something that's not common here. A tool, in other words, that can be adapted to act as a sort of spindle moulder where the long fence can be a useful supplement for that use. They also commonly use dado blades for cutting housings, rebates and the like. Then there's the somewhat dodgy practice (in my opinion, anyway) of creating cove cuts in solid parts by passing the wood over the saw blade at an angle using angled fences to trap the wood. The idea is to do multiple passes and to raise the blade a little for each pass until the cove is formed. The common theme is that to undertake most of the alternative functions fairly common in North America requires removal of the splitter (or riving knife) and the crown guard: once removed, those safety items usually remain removed and gather dust in a drawer or simply get lost.
A couple of decades ago I collaborated with a lady called Barb Siddiqui on this article discussing table saw use. It airs some of the issues in this thread from both an American and European perspective. The poor quality snaps below (sorry) come from that. Slainte.
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it's a garbage pile, which is OK, if you don't have a mother who taught you to look your best every time you show up to see someone or have your picture taken.
I thought maybe at the outset, since you can literally just put a phone in a clamp and video something you would do, anyway, that other people might do it and talk about what they're doing so we can all learn from each other. I've tried with a few pros but people are insecure about it or the odd person here or there thinks they're "giving away things people should pay them for" if they talk about how they make things.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
2 push sticks in use I see!It's the North American way. For some reason many users there are convinced that a long fence is essential, and that a rip saw works best when all the guards are removed, i.e., the riving knife or their inferior splitter and the crown guard. The they tend to believe (erroneously for the most part) they can control a piece of wood that wants to kickback with a shoe type push stick which, during the latter stages of a rip cut, places their hand very close to the exposed spinning blade.
I think the attitude comes from the tendency of North Americans to think of their saw as a multifunction tool, something that's not common here. A tool, in other words, that can be adapted to act as a sort of spindle moulder where the long fence can be a useful supplement for that use. They also use commonly use dado blades for cutting housings, rebates and the like. Then there's somewhat dodgy practice (in my opinion, anyway) of creating cove cuts in solid parts by passing the wood over the saw blade at an angle using angled fences to trap the wood. The idea is to do multiple passes and to raise the blade a little for each pass until the cove is formed. The common theme is that to undertake most of the alternative functions fairly common in North America requires removal of the splitter (or riving knife) and the crown guard: once removed, those safety items usually remain removed and gather dust in a drawer or simply get lost.
A couple of decades ago I collaborated with a lady called Barb Siddiqui on this article discussing table saw use. It discusses some of the issues in this thread from both an American and European perspective. The poor quality snaps below (sorry) come from that. Slainte.
The recommendation I first heard for two sticks, on this forum very many years ago, was somebody who said it was his instructors advice. May have been one of your lads?
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