Pumped drain to sewer etc

[Jacob]

Having to look at drain solutions. One is to take our domestic drain to a sump and then pump to get to the public sewer - no great height difference.
Anybody have any info on this or refs to informative sites?

PS looking at this sort of thing Sewage Pumping Stations UK & Sewage Pump Systems | JTPumps
can they be installed inside the building - we have a redundant coal cellar conveniently sited.

 

[ChaiLatte]

What are you draining?

A hand wash basin, bath, shower and washing machine might only need a pump.

A kitchen sink (unless it has its own macerator) and a toilet will have solids down them so the mechanics of what you show above is more suitable.

The one above is designed to be installed in the ground so the earth outside resists the water pressure inside. You would have to confirm with the manufacturer if it could be installed without outside support.

 

[Fitzroy]

Pumps don't like solids, you'll need to avoid anything other than human waste and toilet paper entering the system. Sanitary products will likely play hell with the pump. My landlord friend once pulled a bra out of a blocked drain! I would also install a second non-return valve in the outlet from the unit, backflow from the higher sewer would be an unthinkable outcome.

 

[Jacob]

Will get professionals to install it etc.
Another drain query, legal this time: we have a drain going over neighbour's land which entitles us to access for repair, maintenance apparently. Would this also entitle us to alter it by making it a bit deeper? (which would obviate the need for a pump).

 

[electricsub]

Having designed / installed etc around 1000+submersible sewage pumping stations in my 50 + years working live, few pointers.

1- Minimum solids handing size for your pump should be 80mm, unless you use a macerator pump, in which case the 50mm discharge would be fine.
2- Fitroy's cmments are correct "sewage" - means body fluids + wash basin + bath + dish washer + washing machine, NOT towels sanitary or childrens ducks otherwise etc, although dependant on how good your macerator pump is, it may handle them.
3- Don't fit a 2nd NSV but a gatevalve on the discharge pipe, out side of the unit.
4- Be prepaired for a smelly atmosphere should pump stop working and you need to open the unit.
5- Not sure if you tank has a high level alarm, if not have one fitted into say your kitchen - visual & audible ( with silence button)
6- Service & maintenace contract if your are not sure about working on tank & pump - IF YOU DO WORK ON IT SWITCH OFF ELECTRIC SUPPLY FIRST
7- Regarding lowering the sewer drain going over your neighbours land - If the drain has not been adopted by your local water company, then its between the two of you, But probable the whole length would need to be lowered, so from cost point a new sewer pipe might work out cheaper and easier.
8- Lastly make sure you buy a good make of pump. lots of what I call plasticy thinks around which dont last, speak in depth your supplier on what they offer.
A good electric submersible pump with maintenance should last 15 / 20 years.

Lastly if would like more info ask either here or via my email

Best of Luck : Robert

 

[Marischal Ellis]

Well the answer from above tells it all I am sure. I was going to write an alarm would be essential.

 

[electricsub]

Maybe should have added, that as you are in Derbyshire, that T-T Pumps, Woore, Cheshire, may be of help. Used them many time, but maybe not a cheap as supplier you mentioned.

 

[Yojevol]

Will get professionals to install it etc.
Another drain query, legal this time: we have a drain going over neighbour's land which entitles us to access for repair, maintenance apparently. Would this also entitle us to alter it by making it a bit deeper? (which would obviate the need for a pump).

We have our neighbour's drain routed through our garden. In this situation the water utility (Severn-Trent in our case) has responsibility for any problems with her drain. We've had many incidents over the years and S-T have always responded. The utilility also has responsibility for the final connection between the lowest access inspection chamber to the main sewer.
So I think you need to discuss it with your water utilility. And the best of luck with that, not easy. Probably best to get a local contractor involved who knows the ropes and has contacts.
Brian

 

[ChaiLatte]

...visual & audible ( with silence button)

Out of interest, where is the silence button usually located? Unless it is right on top of the pumping station, it kind of defeats the purpose of having an alarm if it does not force you to go and look at the thing to find out why it is alarmed.

...probable the whole length would need to be lowered

It would be wise to find out the level (or the lowest level possible) at the pipe's ultimate outlet. Then work out the distance between there and the pipe's inlet so you can calculate if the gradient would be within allowed limits. The existing pipe might be high for a reason - because it cannot be lower.

 

[Jacob]

It would be wise to find out the level (or the lowest level possible) at the pipe's ultimate outlet. Then work out the distance between there and the pipe's inlet so you can calculate if the gradient would be within allowed limits. The existing pipe might be high for a reason - because it cannot be lower.

The problem is in matching two old separate installations which don't quite line up horizontally, and trying to avoid digging out the road.
Thanks for info all. On the case! Trying to get Severn Trent on it is not easy.

 

[Spectric]

Another drain query, legal this time: we have a drain going over neighbour's land which entitles us to access for repair, maintenance apparently. Would this also entitle us to alter it by making it a bit deeper? (which would obviate the need for a pump).

We also have a shared drain, according to UU if a drain carries just your waste then it is your responsibility but if shared then UU take responsibiliy and only UU have any rights to access that drain.

 

[Steve_Scott]

Building regulations require you to use gravity drainage where possible; I’ll need to check to get you which part to look at if you want to read up on it but it’s definitely in there so if you can, avoid pumped systems as it’s another thing to fail.

That being said, ready to install systems that incorporate a sump and pump(s) are available on the market and they work fine until they don’t (I only ever see the ones that go wrong so I’m cynical). Service them at least annually and make sure you spec a macerating pump set of dealing with human waste.

 

[Fergie 307]

Will get professionals to install it etc.
Another drain query, legal this time: we have a drain going over neighbour's land which entitles us to access for repair, maintenance apparently. Would this also entitle us to alter it by making it a bit deeper? (which would obviate the need for a pump).

Jacob you don't say how long a run this pipe is. If it is fairly short then it might be better to just have it out and replace it with a lower run, or just run a new deeper one alongside.

 

[Chris Harris]

We also have a shared drain, according to UU if a drain carries just your waste then it is your responsibility but if shared then UU take responsibiliy and only UU have any rights to access that drain.

This depends upon the age of the drain (see law on combined drains (etc)
On a slightly different tack, you need to carry out a proper survey; without measuring from a proper datum the differences from ground level will lead you astray. Never put your sump in the cellar - all hell will break loose if you have a blockages. Retired EHO

 

[Jacob]

This depends upon the age of the drain (see law on combined drains (etc)
On a slightly different tack, you need to carry out a proper survey; without measuring from a proper datum the differences from ground level.

Yes. Have done my own invert level surveying sighting over a spirit level to somebody with a rod in an IC etc. but will need a drain man when it comes to actually doing anything!

will lead you astray. Never put your sump in the cellar - all hell will break loose if you have a blockages. Retired EHO

Well yes, crossed my mind!
Basically I'm looking at all the options but a complete new run looks the most likely outcome
How deep should a drain go under my neighbour's garden?

 

[Spectric]

How deep should a drain go under my neighbour's garden?

I don't think this is the question, it has to go at a depth that takes it from A to B at the corrrect fall with suitable inspection chambers. If the difference in height between A and B is gives too much fall then you use interconnected chambers where each chamber gives you a drop.

By the way were you on a septic tank and now want public sewers ?

 

[Jacob]

I don't think this is the question, it has to go at a depth that takes it from A to B at the corrrect fall with suitable inspection chambers. If the difference in height between A and B is gives too much fall then you use interconnected chambers where each chamber gives you a drop.

The last drop is into the main public sewer IC which is very deep, so a new connection goes in higher up, well above the invert level.

By the way were you on a septic tank and now want public sewers ?

No it's about joining two existing old systems. Too complicated to explain!

 

[Spectric]

That sounds like fun, why are there two old systems ? For a sharpening guru I would not see a few sewer pipes as being complicated.

 

[Jacob]

That sounds like fun, why are there two old systems ? For a sharpening guru I would not see a few sewer pipes as being complicated.

A old drain from a toilet block (there was a school here) and an old drain from the chapel (this is a chapel conversion).
Anyway, all things considered - a new layout looks best option for all concerned, rather than trying to link them and save a few bob. So this is now plan A!

 

[MikeJhn]

I don't think this is the question, it has to go at a depth that takes it from A to B at the corrrect fall with suitable inspection chambers. If the difference in height between A and B is gives too much fall then you use interconnected chambers where each chamber gives you a drop.

Absolutely, if the fall is too great there is a danger of the flow causing the fluid and solids to separate and leave the solids behind, too little fall and the solids will inhibit the flow, there is a formula to back this up, but normally it's a case of putting a 25mm block on a 1m spirit level if you don't have a Dumpy level (pun not intended)