Please help me get inspired

[cornishjoinery]

sorry but all my joinery work is commission based and one off's they may not be all 100% original design but that's why i love my work. If you want to start making 50+ of the same item then go and work in B and Q. I make good money, have a nice house and love my job. Why go into joinery and cabinetry if you don't love it? And if you're not creative then get out of the business.

 

[Jacob]

There you go then our one serious professional has spoken!

 

[Zeddedhed]

And we're off...

 

[JonnyW]

sorry but all my joinery work is commission based and one off's they may not be all 100% original design but that's why i love my work. If you want to start making 50+ of the same item then go and work in B and Q. I make good money, have a nice house and love my job. Why go into joinery and cabinetry if you don't love it? And if you're not creative then get out of the business.

You would do well to bother your backside and research the talent that resides within this forum's membership, and only then might you consider not posting such patronising dribble.

Speak about joinery; share your wealth of experience and talent; put your money where your mouth is and spare the lectures. We all attended that class in week one.

Jonny

 

[doctor Bob]

PS and put your prices up - think of a number double it and add £50

The nonsense the old duffer comes up with is amazing ...................... have you escaped again from the home?

 

[custard]

Hello Beau, sorry to hear you've drifted away from your tools.

You say you can't face making furniture, even when you get commission enquiries, what in particular is the barrier? Is it the design process, dealing with the client, the actual making, or something else entirely? What would be different about a commission enquiry that might make you say, "yes"?

Thanks Custard

Hard to say exactly. Generally not too unhappy with the design process and still enjoy problem solving. I am hopeless at drawing but sketchup has helped me out more recently. I get into the workshop with good intentions but after an hour or so the mind is drifting and I become indecisive about about many aspects of the design and construction which have not been finalised. I work from home so it's easy for distractions to occur not helped by living on a working farm. I dwell on mistakes and the less I do the more mistakes creep in. Finishing has always been a chore. It would all be easier if I was pleased with my work but in reality I am sick of the sight of most pieces and dwell on the faults and can't wait to be rid of them. Sometimes take pleasure when seeing my work years later. After all these years I still can't quote accurately and have yet to overprice a piece. I guess it's not all supposed to be fun and many have to do soul destroying jobs for a living all of which adds to my guilt for not being happy with it all.

You're certainly not alone. The sentiments you describe would, at some time or another, fit the great majority of makers I know, especially those who work on their own.

It's one of the paradoxes of craft work. You're motivated to do the very, very best work you can. But being a fallible human, and using a natural material with all the vagaries that implies, means perfection will always elude us. Maybe a more sustainable approach is, instead of asking if this project is perfect, ask instead if it's better than the last similar project you tackled? And of course, the next one has to be just that tiny bit better still!

Good luck Beau rediscovering your maker's mojo. We've all had a period in our woodworking careers when we felt adrift, but it just makes it all the sweeter when you do re-engage with your tools and materials.

 

[Jacob]

PS and put your prices up - think of a number double it and add £50

The nonsense the old duffer comes up with is amazing ...................... have you escaped again from the home?

Serious. It's easy to be too cheap. In the past I've put prices up nervously and found yes sales falling off :shock: .
But nothing wrong with a shorter order book as long as you have enough to do - AND you are getting a bit more, can spend a bit longer on it, produce a better product and move up-market. This isn't exactly an original idea it's well tried and tested.
You are too cheap if you have a long waiting list - it's that simple. Increasing productivity is not the only answer - losing a few customers to higher prices is quite likely to improve both your profit margin and the quality of your stuff.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi all

Bit of a long shot but hope you can help

I have worked as a self employed cabinet maker for 25+ years but have found it harder and harder to motivate myself. In the last few years I have made a living from another avenue. I still get asked to make pieces but just can't face it and turn jobs away most of the time. Not made anything of note for nearly a year and to be honest don't miss it but feel guilty as this is waste of my skill. My current work is not something I can do for ever and is pretty much unskilled so would like to get back to the woodwork in due course. Sorry if I don't come over well but I am dyslexic and struggle to express myself via the written word. Any thought as to how to get my head around making again?

Beau

25 years is a long time to be doing something, and if you're still getting orders (well, requests, anyway) you must be good at what you do. Still, it sounds a bit like you've got into a rut with life. You may have tried this, but would a brief change of scene help? A holiday, a weekend away, even a long walk somewhere? A bit of fresh air, exercise, a change of scenery and a long think can work wonders sometimes.

I'm a design engineer by profession. My work involved doing quite complex calculations to prove that a design was safe (that's specialist chemical plants - big ones). Sometimes, when a big, complicated job was just not working out, and I was getting frustrated with it, I found that putting it aside for a day or two and doing a plain, very simple job to the very best of my ability helped to clear the mind. I got something finished quickly, which gave a sense of having achieved something. Then, when I picked up the big job again, things would often just click into place - I'd see the obvious points I'd been missing because I'd been staring too hard at the job and become too blinkered. Once the 'logjam' was broken, the job would flow.

I don't know if that would apply to cabinet work, but I offer it for what it's worth.

 

[StevieB]

I take the following two points from your posts:

You are good at what you do in terms of woodwork because you made a living from it for 25 years, and you didn't do it for the money so must have done it for the pleasure of it.

For whatever reason, that pleasure has now diminished or gone and you want to rediscover that in order to be able to pick up that type of work again. To me, it reads as if the lack of satisfaction with a piece is not a lack of skill, but rather an excuse for a lack of enjoyment in the process. I do not mean excuse in a derogatory sense but I couldn't think of a better word. You are focusing on the imperfections in a piece rather than the process of making something from scratch. We can ignore the 'stack em high sell em cheap or make em bespoke sell em for what you can' debate, this is immaterial if either method produces a lifestyle you are happy with. So it then comes down to 'what did you get from this career before that you are not getting now? I think you need to have an honest chat with yourself about what it is that is lacking now that was there before. There is no reason why you should enjoy something forever, or continue to do something that brings you no pleasure if you have other options. You certainly do not need to feel guilty about not utilising a skill set - you used it for 25 years to provide for yourself (and family?) so it has proved its worth.

If you can identify what it is that is missing then you can take steps to recapture that. Failing that, try easing yourself into woodworking again without the pressure to generate income. Do it for pleasure by making something you fancy making. Go down to the workshop and have a tidy. Sharpen all your tools. Fettle an e-bay rust riven plane to tip-top condition. Just get yourself gently used to being back in that environment and seeing if it feels right. At all times be honest with yourself. There is no magic bullet to this, but it sounds very much as if the block is mental rather than physical, even though you are focusing on physical defects in pieces you make.

Steve

 

[doctor Bob]

PS and put your prices up - think of a number double it and add £50

The nonsense the old duffer comes up with is amazing ...................... have you escaped again from the home?

Serious. It's easy to be too cheap. In the past I've put prices up nervously and found yes sales falling off :shock: .
But nothing wrong with a shorter order book as long as you have enough to do - AND you are getting a bit more, can spend a bit longer on it, produce a better product and move up-market. This isn't exactly an original idea it's well tried and tested.
You are too cheap if you have a long waiting list - it's that simple. Increasing productivity is not the only answer - losing a few customers to higher prices is quite likely to improve both your profit margin and the quality of your stuff.

You don't even know what he charges, he never mentioned it, he may be ridiculously expensive already. You are talking nonsense to just say double it and add £50. Absolute dribble.

 

[Beau]

PS and put your prices up - think of a number double it and add £50

Haha my mrs is often saying this to me and you're both right.

 

[cornishjoinery]

May i ask Johny W how my post was patronising? saying that i do commission work and get paid for it? would be happy to show my work.
Anyway we are trying to help this dude

 

[JonnyW]

May i ask Johny W how my post was patronising? saying that i do commission work and get paid for it? would be happy to show my work.
Anyway we are trying to help this dude

You're pointing out the obvious. However in his case, the OP is a man looking for inspiration, motivation and some sensitivity.

That's all Cornishjoinery.

I don't question your talent and enthusiasm, however comments like "I make good money, have a nice house and love my job" or "if you're not creative, get out the business", aren't helpful, and certainly not when Beau was looking for some moral support and to help find his woodworking mojo again.

Come with something constructive.

But hey, I've maybe picked your point up all wrong - I do tend to do that sometimes.

Jonny

 

[Dusty]

HI Beau , first off , may I offer my sympathy , and undertanding , With out turning this around , I suffered from a nervous breakdown 5 years ago , leaving me with anxiety and panic attacks , I managed to get over it with the use of meds and "help" , I got back to work after a month or so . I too work for myself and have done for over 15 years . For me it was the stress of work , never switching off and worrying about the carp no one else cared about , final straw was a customer , or dare I say "client" , who for some reason decided he preferred to keep his money and not pay his bills , nearly 25 grand final payment , court , supplier maxed out etc all brought me down . I learnt and covered my buttocks from there .

Anyway , my point is this , in APril 2014 I relapsed , something big happened in the family and I fell of the wagon , since then I have barely left the house , maybe a few miles from home , I now struggle day to day , depression , anxiety , fear . I am lucky in that I can still work from home and have several companies and artists I supply parts for , luckily I know them personaly too , so I have their understanding about logistics .

I suppose my point it is , somedays I pull back the curtain and just feel like hiding others I feel good and just crack on . When I am struggling with drive I make a little note to myself to do something no matter how trivial , could be sweeping up the workshop , putting tools back in an orderly fashion , what ever , just do it , little feel good factor . When I get the time I do make items to sell , not ordered , if I am strugging for ideas or inspiration , I just flick google up and search , say a "wood and stainless table" and look through it all . I dont look to copy , just look for concepts , as there is only so many times you can re-invent the wheel !

You say you hate finishing items , so do I , so just shelve the project and start something else and come back at a later point , dont push yourself as that is no doubt part of your drive and confidence issue , just because someone may use 20 had cut dovetails , doesnt mean you cant use bisuits and hidden fixings , dont set yourself up to "mentaly fail" , make yourself realistic goals .

As my councilor / therapist / shrink says , baby steps , dont set yourself up to fail .

take care , Sam

 

[Jacob]

........

The nonsense the old duffer comes up with is amazing ...................... have you escaped again from the home?

Serious. It's easy to be too cheap. In the past I've put prices up nervously and found yes sales falling off :shock: .
But nothing wrong with a shorter order book as long as you have enough to do - AND you are getting a bit more, can spend a bit longer on it, produce a better product and move up-market. This isn't exactly an original idea it's well tried and tested.
You are too cheap if you have a long waiting list - it's that simple. Increasing productivity is not the only answer - losing a few customers to higher prices is quite likely to improve both your profit margin and the quality of your stuff.

You don't even know what he charges, he never mentioned it, he may be ridiculously expensive already. You are talking nonsense to just say double it and add £50. Absolute dribble.

He said something about it if you look back. If he was ridiculously expensive he wouldn't be getting any orders and there wouldn't be an issue, by definition.

PS He said "I still can't quote accurately and have yet to overprice a piece."
There is no such thing as "quoting accurately". Accurately estimating the cost (to yourself) of a job is one thing but the price you quote to the client is another; must be higher than your estimate plus as much as you can stick on top as possible without losing the job.

PS or even higher if you don't want the job!

 

[doctor Bob]

He said something about it if you look back. If he was ridiculously expensive he wouldn't be getting any orders and there wouldn't be an issue, by definition.

PS He said "I still can't quote accurately and have yet to overprice a piece."
There is no such thing as "quoting accurately". Accurately estimating the cost (to yourself) of a job is one thing but the price you quote to the client is another; must be higher than your estimate plus as much as you can stick on top as possible without losing the job.

PS or even higher if you don't want the job!

Wibble............... there is such a thing as quoting accurately.

You socialist make me sick........"stick as much on as possible" socialism at it's best, no wonder new labour loves people like you Jacob, socialist shouty do gooder, capitalist at heart.

 

[Jacob]

He said something about it if you look back. If he was ridiculously expensive he wouldn't be getting any orders and there wouldn't be an issue, by definition.

PS He said "I still can't quote accurately and have yet to overprice a piece."
There is no such thing as "quoting accurately". Accurately estimating the cost (to yourself) of a job is one thing but the price you quote to the client is another; must be higher than your estimate plus as much as you can stick on top as possible without losing the job.

PS or even higher if you don't want the job!

Wibble............... there is such a thing as quoting accurately.

You socialist make me sick........"stick as much on as possible" socialism at it's best, no wonder new labour loves people like you Jacob, socialist shouty do gooder, capitalist at heart.

Yebbut we aren't talking about public services we are looking at luxury goods which nobody needs. Market prices rule!
On the other hand if people can't afford somewhere to live when there is empty speculative property everywhere, or a swarm of buy-to-let parasites, then there is an issue.

 

[MusicMan]

I didn't think Cornishjoinery's post was patronising, rather it set the context for his remarks. And I didn't think Jacob's remarks indicated that he was an old buffer forgetting his meds, rather that he is a bright and sensible young man .

It is true in many spheres that artisans are poor at estimating and making a living from their work. A discussion on this, whether in a trade forum or elsewhere, would surely be beneficial. (I'm not a pro woodworker, but for many years I was responsible for estimating scientific instrument contracts, ranging from £10,000 to about £500,000, and you do need to get those good enough).

So not forgetting Beau's original post, here's the best tip I ever had for estimating: break down your estimate, when you are working it out, into as many line items as possible. Cost of materials, obviously, allowing for waste, and working from a written design. Preparing and executing the cutting list. Count the number of joints and estimate the time you take to cut each one. Estimate each layer of finishing and sanding and include something for drying time, as this ties up your capital and resources. Include some overhead time for sharpening tools, clearing up. And a bit of time for chasing payment. Then add a contingency, because the unexpected is to be expected, and a profit margin.

On the other hand the way to underestimate is to say: that'll be about 5 sheets of ply, and maybe 10 days work at my usual rate.

You'll probably get quite close to Jacob's figure!

Keith

 

[Jacob]

.........
On the other hand the way to underestimate is to say: that'll be about 5 sheets of ply, and maybe 10 days work at my usual rate. ....

Then double it and add £50. Job done!

 

[sawdust1]

Hi Beau,
I know in a way were you are coming from as for the last 26 years i to have been earning my living from making furniture and about 4 years ago found myself getting fed up with it, all those hours of endless sanding, cutting joints and spray finishing sort of finished me off and just about made enough money to keep my head above water, nothing wacky just basic traditional furniture.
Decided to pack it in and go into property development built 2 houses in time for the crash, lost my money and had to get back to the furniture again to start earning. Things were slow so started up Sunnyfields Poultry Housing ( don't know how to do a link ). This was a better option for me as all the designs on my web site have cutting lists, so boards come in, all components cut to size all put together with air nailers, no joints, sanding or finishing. They are sent all over the country flat packed on pallets.
I still do the odd bit of furniture when asked cupboard doors today, coffee table and bookcase next week.
I don't know why jacob says bespoke is a mugs game as most furniture makers are turning out bespoke work and large batch work is best left to the factories who have got the machinery to do it.
But jacob could be half right in that their could be an opening for you instead of looking at bespoke commissions set up your business to make a specific items say for example larder cupboards about 10 designs painted, different woods and sizes, 1 door and 2 door cupboards. Make up cutting lists and assembly jigs to make life simpler. Get a web site call yourself the Kitchen Cupboard Co.
I a'm using this as an example it can be applied to many different items.
A new idea may give you the spark to get going again, you already have the talent and workshop set up it would be a shame to waste it all.
I see you are in Devon, where to, i'm in East Devon you are welcome to call in for a brew and a chat anytime.