Plane No 4 1/2 versus No. 5

[DavidE]

Hi there,

I have been trawling the forum and have read quite a few views on this topic... I thought I'd just ask again to see if there are any fresh/revised views.

I already have a No.7 Clifton Plane, and two No. 4 smoothers (A Stanley and one that needs restoring a bit). I've also got a nice little block plane.
I get on okay with the No. 4 thought it is a bit light on some hardwoods. I love the Clifton No.7 and the joints I've made with it.

I'm looking at either a 4 1/2 or a 5 to fill the mid range of the collection (no specific use requirements). There do seem to be two schools of thought on this matter...
If anyone has any thoughts one way or the other (or even suggestions of getting another No. 4, I'd really like to hear them. I am thinking of going for another Clifton.

Thanks,
David

 

[Rknott2007]

personally i find a number 5 a bit too light, i have two 4 1/2 one bailey one bedrock with thick irons to add to the mass, they both work superb, but if you'd prefer a slightly longer plane perhaps a 5 1/2? I have a bailey 5 1/2 with lie nielsen iron, a like this plane alot, although not as much as my 4 1/2. Hope this helps

 

[Joe]

What about the Veritas Low-Angle Jack? I've not used one but it's had some good write-ups on this forum (have a look at Alf's review). If I hadn't succumbed to the allure of a LN No.6 then I definitely would have gone for the Veritas plane.

 

[MrJay]

Depends on what you want to do with it. Despite it's mid-size The #5 isn't the do-it-all plane some people think it is, hand tools are specialists - better to think of it as a blank canvas awaiting having some character and unique purpose stamped on it. For me a #5 is a rough tool for hogging off material fast - the #7 is the mid-range tool, others tune the #5 as a fine tool for refining faces and edges. A #5 given the David C. super-smoother treatment would be about as much use to me as one of my crude monstrosities with their, wide open mouths and overtly cambered blades would be in his work flow. Both approaches (and no doubt others besides) are proven and valid.

I wouldn't dream of forking out premium plane prices on a #5.

If you're keen on the #7 (a trying plane that's sort of short and wide as trying planes go) and are after a big smoother I also wonder if you won't find the #5 too long and narrow (it's about as long as planes go while retaining the 2" width and isn't entirely stable when used in anger) - though I think you'd find a lot of difference between the Clifton #4 and Stanley #4 when it comes to poise - the 4 1/2 really is a giant among smoothers (accepting that plenty of people round these parts use much bigger planes as smoothers - but they're contrary).

 

[Anonymous]

With what you already have, and since you appear to like heavier planes (as I do), then the 4.5 i prference to a 5.

I love my 4.5 and 5.5 the most of all my planes, and both get the most use of all the 'collection'

Many will argue that a LV or LN bevel up smoother is 'better' but I disagree from real world experience of both types of plane - I owned and sold the LN BU smoother (very disappointing plane) , I currently own the LV BU smoother (much better than the LN due to additional mass) and a very impressive plane indeed, and own an LN 4.5 smoother.

9 times out of 10 I use the LN 4.5 with York pitch frog as my final plane on a piece of furniture (#3 on smaller pieces) because it is siomply a better smoother than the LV BU and gets the job done more quickly and more easily whilst leaving a glassy smooth finish

 

[bugbear]

The planes you require depend on (at least) your pocket, your work, and how many planes you intend to buy.

The latter point bears clarification.

Most planes are used in a sequence, from rough to smooth, and which planes you need depend on how closely you intend to have your planes "spaced" (by functionality) in that sequence.

Thus a finely gradated sequence may have very few planes in common with a more spaced sequence.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

Hi there,

I have been trawling the forum and have read quite a few views on this topic... I thought I'd just ask again to see if there are any fresh/revised views.

I already have a No.7 Clifton Plane, and two No. 4 smoothers (A Stanley and one that needs restoring a bit). I've also got a nice little block plane.
I get on okay with the No. 4 thought it is a bit light on some hardwoods. I love the Clifton No.7 and the joints I've made with it.

I'm looking at either a 4 1/2 or a 5 to fill the mid range of the collection (no specific use requirements). There do seem to be two schools of thought on this matter...
If anyone has any thoughts one way or the other (or even suggestions of getting another No. 4, I'd really like to hear them. I am thinking of going for another Clifton.

Thanks,
David

David - the two planes you mention are really for different purposes. The No. 4 1/2 is really a slightly larger and therefore heavier smoother and ought to be used as such while the No. 5 is traditionally used for general bench work and preparation of stock, hence the name Jack (of all trades) plane. I have a much fettled Record No4, which as you say, may be a bit light, a Record Calvert-Stevens (which is a super heavy 4 1/2) again hugely fettled with a LN blade assembly and I've recently bought the LV BU smoother. Of the three, there is absolutely no question IMO that the LV BU outshines them all. If you wanted a really good compromise my advice would be to go for the LV BU Jack (which I won) that can also double as a rather good smoother as it's basically an extended version. Even better the range of LV planes can be obtained from here with a fairly impressive discount, including VAT and p&P...you can't really go wrong at that price - Rob

 

[Racers]

Hi,
I have a Stanley 4 1/2 setup for rough work and a pre-war Record 4 1/2 set for finishing, the weight of both make light work of most things.
I also have a Record 5 1/2 which is a really nice plane to use, often its just a case which one is to hand but my No4s don't usually get a look in.

If you like the No7 wate till you get hold of a No8.


Pete

 

[newt]

I agree with Rob the LV BU jack has really surprised me it is so versatile if I could only have one plane that would be my choice. It is also very good value at the moment.

 

[bugbear]

... a Record Calvert-Stevens (which is a super heavy 4 1/2) again hugely fettled with a LN blade assembly

I though the CS88 came with Record's very finest blade, laminated and everything? The adverts spoke very highly of that blade

BugBear

 

[whybob71]

4 1/2 or 5??? I believe that the best choice is...both!! 8)

but if you have to save money, then go for a premium smoother (LN 4 1/2 or BUS) and buy a vintage stanley #5 with a good iron.

The doctor told you JUST ONE plane? hummmm.....then I agree: the BU jack is very versatile....... 8)

 

[DavidE]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I will think about all that has been said and maybe post some more thoughts later. There are some interesting alternatives posted

I perhaps should have said up front... I appreciate this is a slippy slope and I can see this won't be my last plane purchase. The reason for trying to choose one is I have to find a gift to be bought for me (long story). I figured another plane would be very useful and I want something that will fill the gap between the No. 4 and No. 7.

I have been leaning towards the 4 1/2 as I think I will do more fine work with it. The rough work that some have mentioned of the number 5 I will probably leave to the machines. The general consensus is I think the 4 1/2" would be a better choice for finer finishing work? (Ignoring the other worthy LV BU Jack suggestions for a moment).

Thanks, David

 

[woodbloke]

... a Record Calvert-Stevens (which is a super heavy 4 1/2) again hugely fettled with a LN blade assembly

I though the CS88 came with Record's very finest blade, laminated and everything? The adverts spoke very highly of that blade

BugBear

The adds may have spoken highly of the Record blade , but the whole plane still works far better with the much thicker LN blade assembly - Rob

 

[Racers]

Hi, davidE

There is a nice Record No4 1/2 on Ebay its an early one with square shouldered blade and cap iron.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=003

Should clean up nice, can't make out is the got a rosewood knob and tote, the knob looks defiantly rosewood but the tote is lighter in one pic. I have a Record 5 with a mix of woods and a square shouldered blade so may be its about the same vintage. My No4 1/2 is all rosewood.

Pete

 

[Harbo]

The LV BU Jack gets my vote - an amazing plane!
Well worth the money.

Rod

 

[Routermonster]

I agree with Rob and Rod - the LV BU Jack is a great plane. I recently got mine from the place Rob mentions - great price and prompt service.

HTH

Les

 

[bugbear]

Hi, davidE

There is a nice Record No4 1/2 on Ebay its an early one with square shouldered blade and cap iron.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=003

Should clean up nice, can't make out is the got a rosewood knob and tote, the knob looks defiantly rosewood but the tote is lighter in one pic. I have a Record 5 with a mix of woods and a square shouldered blade so may be its about the same vintage. My No4 1/2 is all rosewood.

Pete

Rosewood knob, stained beech tote is common; seller says the blade is Stanley, which would be surprising.

Of course, it's only cheap at the moment; this IS an auction!

EDIT: It ain't VERY cheap 10 quid bid + 9 quid post = 19 quid, which would be my uppper limit on that tool.

BugBear

 

[Racers]

Hi, Bugbear

Yes the postage is steep.

I got mine for £9 from a car boot.

Pete

 

[bugbear]

Hi, Bugbear

Yes the postage is steep.

I got mine for £9 from a car boot.

Pete

That's high for you, oh publicly-gloating-one !!

BugBear (who remembers some of Pete's other buys)

 

[Racers]

Hi, BB

I saw it more as an example rather than a gloat :wink:

Pete