I've just bought a couple of old planes through Ebay, a Record No. 5 jack, which just needed a good clean, and a Stanley 4 1/2. I thought I was getting a 4 but the description wasn't very detailed. The good thing is, it was cheap, £1.24 plus postage. The bad thing is that the blade has obviously been re-ground on a bench grinder and is quite blue along the edge. I know that this is not good, as it affects the temper of the steel, but does it mean the blade is ruined or can I re-grind it (carefully) to remove the affected metal? I do have another 2 3/8" wide blade, from a Stanley No. 6 that I got as part of a job lot from a retired woodwork teacher, but that will also need quite a bit of work. I'm going to try the scary sharp method for the first time, but I'm not sure how to get the initial bevel as, I too only gave a high speed bench grinder.
Plane blade ruined?
- Thread starter George_N
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Alf
Established Member
George,
Take comfort; the first thing most folk do is toss the Stanley blade and get a better one anyway. I'd suggest cutting to the chase and doing that first, rather than wasting a lot of effort on the blued blade. Depending on how bad it is, you could possibly carefully, and slowly, and above all cooly, grind past the area that's lost its temper, I suppose...
Grinding a primary bevel on a high speed grinder is not the impossible task some would have you believe. Here, have a bit of a brain dump on it:
1. Is the blade edge in reasonably good shape? That is square to the sides of the blade and so forth? If not, adjust the rest so you're grinding the edge at 90° to the back and get it the right shape first.
2. The coarser the wheel, the better. It'll grind quicker and thus cooler. You don't need a fine finish anyway, 'cos this is just for removing a lot of metal in a hurry, not getting a sharp edge.
3. Keep it dressed regularly. A clogged wheel will grind slower and thus hotter.
4. Don't press the blade into the wheel like you're trying to squeeze your holiday packing into a match box. A gentle touch on the wheel is all you need; the wheel will do the work.
5. Keep a finger on the back of the blade not too far from the edge; if it starts to feel warm, stop grinding and let it cool down. Some folks say you should never use water to cool the blade 'cos it'll create minute cracks, but I dunno, it shouldn't get that hot anyway should it?
6. Don't grind right up to the edge when you're forming the bevel angle. I forget the recommended distance to stop at; I probably stop grinding about a mm or two shy of the edge. The thinner the steel, the quicker it'll heat up, see?
Most of that repeated plus a couple of pics here if that helps. Just take you time and it should be just fine. Try it on the ruined blade and you'll have nothing to lose anyway.
Oh and £1.24?! You sucketh most mightily. :lol:
Cheers, Alf
Take comfort; the first thing most folk do is toss the Stanley blade and get a better one anyway. I'd suggest cutting to the chase and doing that first, rather than wasting a lot of effort on the blued blade. Depending on how bad it is, you could possibly carefully, and slowly, and above all cooly, grind past the area that's lost its temper, I suppose...
Grinding a primary bevel on a high speed grinder is not the impossible task some would have you believe. Here, have a bit of a brain dump on it:
1. Is the blade edge in reasonably good shape? That is square to the sides of the blade and so forth? If not, adjust the rest so you're grinding the edge at 90° to the back and get it the right shape first.
2. The coarser the wheel, the better. It'll grind quicker and thus cooler. You don't need a fine finish anyway, 'cos this is just for removing a lot of metal in a hurry, not getting a sharp edge.
3. Keep it dressed regularly. A clogged wheel will grind slower and thus hotter.
4. Don't press the blade into the wheel like you're trying to squeeze your holiday packing into a match box. A gentle touch on the wheel is all you need; the wheel will do the work.
5. Keep a finger on the back of the blade not too far from the edge; if it starts to feel warm, stop grinding and let it cool down. Some folks say you should never use water to cool the blade 'cos it'll create minute cracks, but I dunno, it shouldn't get that hot anyway should it?
6. Don't grind right up to the edge when you're forming the bevel angle. I forget the recommended distance to stop at; I probably stop grinding about a mm or two shy of the edge. The thinner the steel, the quicker it'll heat up, see?
Most of that repeated plus a couple of pics here if that helps. Just take you time and it should be just fine. Try it on the ruined blade and you'll have nothing to lose anyway.
Oh and £1.24?! You sucketh most mightily. :lol:
Cheers, Alf
Cheers Alf, sounds like good advice. As you can probably gather I'm trying to do this as cheaply as possible so I'll have a go at re-grinding the blued blade first. I need to rig up a tool rest for my grinder as the original is hopeless. I saw a post somewhere on UKW where they used a rod-type cabinet door handle as a rest and a holder made out of angle iron. I think I have the necessary bits in the garage so I'll give it a go. I have also had a look in the Axminster catalogue at replacement blades, since my original post, and it looks like they have 3 or 4 options. I probably wouldn't go for the £10 blade but the next cheapest is the Japanese one at £24. Are they any good? The Victor and Lie-Nielsen ones are £33, about 30 times the cost of the plane, but that might just be like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
George
George
Alf
Established Member
BugBear speaks very highly of them - bung replacement blades into a search of the Hand Tools board and you should find a lot of discussion on the pros and cons of all the options. Some would argue that it makes more sense to pay thirty times the cost of the plane on the blade, 'cos that's the really important bit.
Cheers, Alf
Cheers, Alf
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
George
You are referring to the Smoothcut blades. I have one in my Stanley #7 and I think it is excellent - hones to a good edge and holds it well. It is thinner than the LN, etc blades but a little thicker than the Stanley.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Colin C
Established Member
For all that have to grind blades.
First try changing you wheel for a white one, I have and they are great because they dont get the steel hot as quickly as the standard one .
I hope this helps
First try changing you wheel for a white one, I have and they are great because they dont get the steel hot as quickly as the standard one
.I hope this helps
Ed451
Established Member
At the very least, the blued blade will be good for developing your grinding technique. Everyone needs a guinea pig/throw-away.
Ed
Ed
Colin C
Established Member
The white wheel also grind quicker so no need for much pressure, so mush less chance of blueing your tools 8)
A
Anonymous
Guest
George
Hock blades are pretty decent in Stanley planes and cost about £20-25.
Hock blades are pretty decent in Stanley planes and cost about £20-25.
Colin C
Established Member
Any specific wheel to fit a regular 6" bench grinder?
George[/quote]
Yes, any white wheel to fit your 6" grinder. Just make sure that your grinder will fit a wide wheel as some are or try for one the same size
George[/quote]
Yes, any white wheel to fit your 6" grinder. Just make sure that your grinder will fit a wide wheel as some are or try for one the same size
bugbear
Established Member
Ed451":3i7xbsfq said:
Hey, ya' gotta' have something handy for removing paint....
BugBear
bugbear
Established Member
Tony":1re631bv said:
Where from!?!??!
BugBear (who ain't seen 'em that cheap)
Alf
Established Member
A
Anonymous
Guest
bugbear":1nflrz68 said:
Sorry, can't remember as it was a few years ago but mine cost about £24
Alf":1v5chcdk said:
Thanks Alf, that has given me a bit more confidence to go ahead with the kit I've got. If I understand the article correctly, I should grind the existing edge off by pointing the blade's cutting edge straight at the wheel to get the edge square to the sides of the blade. It seems kind of counter intuitive to deliberately blunt the blade before sharpening it, but I realise it is important that the blade edge is square. Obviously this is yet another skill to be mastered (or not) before I can progress any further.
cheers
George
Colin C
Established Member
Alf, that site has some good info for all. I like to use a white wheel for my carving tools but for grinding sratch stock bit and heavy grinding I do like to use aluminum oxide.
Like all things it can take alittle time and practice to get it right
Like all things it can take alittle time and practice to get it right
bugbear
Established Member
George_N":24mq85l3 said:
You do it in this order to minimise the amount of time you spend grinding a blade with a fine bevel. It is during this stage that the maximum risk of burning exists.
Indeed I would suggest NOT power grinding to a fine (burr on the back) edge
BugBear
Jarviser
Established Member
Alf":23vx72t0 said:
I am sure the blade would not crack unless you already got it past the blue stage, by which time its too late. I always used a dish of water and a Veritas grinding jig. The blade was dipped every two or three strokes across the wheel until near the end when I dipped it in the bowl every stroke. You can get almost to an edge that way. Without water, just using the air flow from the wheel, it takes an age with a 2" blade.
Then I was Tormekked and I thought what a lot of time I wasted using bench grinders!
BTW my French Hock blade was £37.50 from Classic Hand Tools. The USA version is about the same price by the time it has been shipped.
Jarviser":2ez3rvke said:
I was going to try and build my own tool rest and grinding jig but having just had a look at the Veritas set-up, I'm quite tempted to get the tool rest/grinding jig from Axminster. For the small amount of grinding/sharpening I need to do a Tormek set-up is way over the top, however good it may be
