One for the scientists

[ByronBlack]

A couple of questions really:

What is it like being a scientist? What are you day-to-day duties? What is the job climate like these days in science industries, are the jobs mostly in research or with large industries like petroleum/environmental etc..

And finally, do you enjoy the work of being a scientist - if so what are the parts that you enjoy most?

 

[StevieB]

Erm, can you give us a bit more info on what exactly you want to know. Scientist is a fairly broad term! I can give you some info on biomedical / genetics / molecular biology but that may not be applicable to other branches of science eg physics or chemistry.

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[SammyQ]

Biologist's view:

Megabucks for Science are in pharmecuticals and agri-business, just research how much of G.B. Gross National Income is here...some estimates as high as 40%. Chemistry a very useful second string or primary focus.

Methodical, fairly well paid jobs in the Civil Service for food, crop, animal disease inspection jobs.

Oil industry.......used to be prolific for chemists and chem. engineers, Biologists/environmental officers employed as sop to Green lobby.

Teaching is shrinking as dip in the birth curve approaches, some primary school to be axed shortly, secondary sector bracing themselves.

University research needs funds from grants and the skimpy provision is fought over.

As climate changes, there is going to be an accelerating demand for Botanists, Environmental Scientists to answer a number of tough choices and provide alternative options, eg agri-diesel or different, hardier, food crops.

Glossy, dramatised jobs like CSI are far from reality and few in number. They require specialised training and the patience of Job.

The bottom line is that, unless you are content to be programmed by a scientist and do his bidding, like a good little labrat, you need a minimum of a degree and preferably, summat higher too.

YES! I enjoy being a scientist! Couldn't get the job satisfaction anywhere else.


PM me if you need more, I'll phone back.

 

[Anonymous]

Being a scientist is absolutely fabulous!! The best job around. I love it!!

I wake up each morning and am very happy to be going to work and often stay late just because I didn't notice the time as i am so involved in the work (really).

Your question is really too broad though Byron. What area are you interested in and what qualification's do you have?

Typically, a person working in science (for me physics, engineering and enducational research) has a minimum of a good (2:1 or 1st) degree in the field or often an MSc or PhD.

Day-to-day 'duties'? Well, for me, as a lecturer and researcher, I guess it depends in if it is term time or not.
Out of term time, I tend to carry out engineering research and run a few of research students (mostly MSc students). This is the fun time for me and I pursue all manner of things that interest me. Typically, these days it is insectoid robotics and imaging systems. Basically, if you can find some funding, you can have a lot of fun.

In term time, I mostly teach and do admin + support our undergraduate students.I spend a lot of time supporting the students as I am one of the senior teaching staff.
When I get the chance, I manage a little educational research in term time and go to a few conferences.

 

[ByronBlack]

Hi fella's, thanks for giving some feedback.

I know the questions were broad as I was after a wide range of views from the seemingly wide range of scientists we seem to have on this board

At my most basic motivation, i'm looking to an Open University degree (takes about 6 years or so) alongside my work. I've narrowed my choice to either an open degree with modules on astronomy/physics and geology, Or their geoscience degree.

I thought it might be a good choice considering the emphasis on climate change at the moment. I can foresee a large movement towards research into alternative energy and adaption to more severe weather conditions.

I first looked into this about 2 years ago but procrastinated, but it's something I want to start and see where it takes me. I intend to start with one of their Level 1 10 point credit courses to get me into the swing of things (Maths for Science, or something similar).

However, there are so many area's that interest me it's kind of difficult to focus on a specific route - hence my questions here. I wanted to gauge the kind of things you brainy lot do and what might be a worthwhile area to study.

 

[Good Surname or what ?]

Byron,

You might consider Geoscience. I began my a career as a geoscientist in the oil business in the late 70's but moved to selling IT technology to oil companies some 20 years ago.

People talk of a "demographic timebomb" caused by lack of recruitment from the mid '80s onwards and people taking early retirement in the '90s (don't forget oil was below $10/barrel not so long ago). There is a huge deficit of technical folks - my company has about 100 open technical job roles to fill around the world and we are less than 1000 peole in total. All our competitors and clients are in similar situations.

This problem will not go a way in the short term. You might do well to investigate this.

cheers
Phil

 

[StevieB]

Hi Byron,

Hmm, geoscience is not really my field but I can give you the perspective of a university senior lecturer in genetics if it helps.

You need a degree without doubt. With a degree you can be a lab tec, basic routine lab bench stuff where you generally do as you are told by someone else. There may be a little independence but not much. You will not get to write papers as a first author or write grants for your own money.

Next step up is get a further qualification. MSc is a possibility although with this there is still not much independence, PhD is pretty much essential if you want a long term career in science that allows you to develop your own idea or interests.

With a PhD you become a Post Doc, sort of midway between making the decisions and being told what to do all the time. After min 5-6 years as a post doc then lecturer beckons, where you run a research group and teach.

Its not quite as cut and dried as that and the above may sound harsh to some but I wouldnt want to raise false expectations. I do not know your age, although I assume it to be older than the typical graduate. Since when I advertise for a graduate I get anywhere from 30-100 applicants (in medical genetics / biology anyway) I would suggest you think very carefully about what you can offer that the other 29-99 candidates cannot. Life skills are not going to count for an awful lot I am afraid.

In terms of money, depends alot where you apply to and what the job is. Approximate target range for a graduate with science degree could be anywhere from 17-22k. A Post Doc 22-30k, although the 30k postdoc is rare. Lecturer and above have a nationally agreed payscale, although again this varies depending on type of university (pre/post 1992). If you go the industry route then salaries can be higher by about 10%, but job security is less.

The bane of any scientist life, especially at graduate/post doc level is the short term contract. You will not get a contract lasting more than 3 years, 1-2 years are more common. you might have to move some way to get a new one unless you are in a large city - not ideal for people with families and a mortgage. The further on in your career you get the more specialised you become and the harder it is to change focus since you become specialised.

My advice would be think about why you want to do it, look at the job market NOW for geoscience graduates. Nobody can predict the future, particularly when it comes to jobs. If there are no jobs now I would be wary about believing there will be a glut in 5 years. I would say by all means do the degree, but be prepared for the fact that it may not get you a dream job at the end of it, particularly if you are older than the typical graduate.

Hope that is of some use and has not disappointed you, but unfortunately having a degree these days is only the first step, not the thing that sets you apart as it was in the old days.

Steve.

 

[mailee]

I often thought about doing a degree in Archeaology but coudn't really see my life in ruins. :lol: Seriously though I do have a degree in English language but it hasn't done me any good. I still class it as a feather in my cap and I may still get to use it when I retire back to China. A friend of mine did the Geology degree with the Open University and he loved it. He now owns a thriving motor business??

 

[greybeard]

IMHO I would suggest that you think and consider very carefully about interests and career as two possibly similar but completely different areas and activities. If the two actually intermingle in your paid employment then you are indeed a lucky man. Especially coming to this world view as an older man rather than a wet-behind-the-ears but relatively unencumbered graduate

I work in IT, and that's what my degree (OU quite a few years ago!) is primarily focussed on. But I got mine when I was already in IT, having arrived there via accounting and general management roles. My IT colleagues are mostly variously blessed with English, Maths, and Science degrees. Very few of them knew what they wanted to be at 18/19, so they went to Uni for 3 years to drink a lot. 3 years later they still didn't know - like me most have had other careers before arriving in IT. And those others included teaching, research and civil engineering.

All of us like what we do - we ended up in IT through personal choice. Some are keener than others, but that tends to vary over time - much of the time it's a result of being work-directed rather than choosing the projects we'd really prefer to work on!

FWIW I believe generally that a degree is much like any other qualification - it's an indicator of an individual's ability to learn/understand/expound to or at a certain level. To that end the degree subject is almost irrelevant. Having said that there aren't many arts degree graduates in my IT department! But I think you probably know what I mean.

I've rambled a bit here (no change there then!) but I hope this helps. Just wouldn't want you to get fired up thinking that a) a very specific degree will take you down your preferred route (degree and career are related but not linked!), or b) that a specific degree is the only route to your preferred career.
Degrees open doors - no degree, no interview. No interview no chance. But the opened door will not necessarily be for the interview you want! Be prepared to be very very flexible. Remember internal moves are always always easier than actually getting into an organisation in the first place.

Waste no more time! - you've already 'lost' two years!! Start the studying - your Foundation course will be both an eye-opener and a brain-stretcher! And use the experience from that, and the advice and guidance resources of the OU, to help you on your way.

Good luck!

 

[ByronBlack]

Cheers for all the info fellas much appreciated. I've decided to go ahead with an OU short course (10 credit points) to see how I get on and to help decide which direction to go down.

I've been in fulltime employment for 10 years now and not really advanced that much and have flirted for a few years running my own business, so I think it's time to start studying again and maybe along the way discover a route.

The way I see it is, if I do something I enjoy then i'm more likely to stick to it, and if I can get a job in that field at the end of it then thats a bonus, if not atleast i've expanded my brain, learnt a few things and improved my CV for the future, i'll only be 33 at the end of it so should still not be classed as 'over-the-hill' by prospective employers..

Either way i'm sure it'll be a door-opening experience in one way or the other.

 

[nickson71]

I've not much more to add .......

I did a degree in biochem ........ got an MSc on Biosensors and a Phd in electrochemistry

I work for a small company that rents lab space at a uni (where I got my Phd) .........

Been doing the job for 5 years an I still love it and the pays not bad

a couple of things is that once you've got a Phd you're specialised so you may have to move to get a job. Secondly there are times when you'll end up doing the samething day in day out if you are Lab based............. especially if you end up as a routine lab tech ......... this is less relevant in research job though

In respect to the glossy CSI job ....... don't go down that route my other half did that and she's currently doing a Phd in electrochemistry ..... the Forensic job market is very limited if there is a job the number of graduated application means that you'll need a MSc to get an interview and once your in the job promotion is based on the people above doing one of three things. Retire, drop dead or win the lottery. I know this as a good friend with a first class degree from a very good London Uni could get a interview so she did a MSc and got the a Forensic job ...... now she's back at uni doing a chemistry based Phd

after that bit of ranting I'm off

Anyhow Byron, hope you enjoy the course

Ian

 

[Dave S]

Hi Byron,

Have been pondering this whilst on a mega garage clear up this weekend!

To give a bit of context, I went to University full time at the age of 28 to do a degree in Environmental Sciences. After that I did a PhD and then worked as a research associate for a few years. My specialism was fluvial geomorphology (the study of the physical form of rivers), particularly the effects of climate change, as well as the restoration of habitat in degraded rivers. I also worked on a project simulating the movement of pollutants in estuaries under various sea-level-rise scenarios.

I now work as a software developer for a firm of civil engineers... :? :?

I have to say that my experience as an undergraduate was great, and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner. I knew several mature students and I think they all felt the same way. I have also known several people who have taken OU courses and degrees, and I think they have all found it hard work, but tremendously rewarding. I was going to suggest that doing a short course to start with might be a good idea - I see you have already come to that decision.

You said you have many areas of interest - again, starting with the short course will give you more time to get a feel for where you might want to go. You might also find, as I did, that a broader degree will leave you with a wider range of possibilities for future careers. Bear in mind that to do research you will need to do a PhD anyway (I'm speaking specifically of the Environmental/geoscience areas here - it may be different in other fields), so doing a broader course to start with won't hold you back.

Steve's comments are also applicable to the Environmental field, I'm afraid. There are mature students I know of who have made it as far as lecturer, but they are few and far between. That said, the work can be very interesting and rewarding - it can also be quite mundane at times, often for long periods of time.

I have to say, that how the pros and cons balance out is a personal thing, and that I no longer work in scientific research is due more to getting married and becoming a Dad than anything else. Financial and job security became much more important than when I was single. The work itself, I always enjoyed.

There is a lot of work outside of academia. I don't think there is likely to be a massive demand for climate change specialists, and it is worth pointing out that much of the work to do with adaptation is the preserve of social rather than physical scientists.

I would agree with Greybeard here. Many people take a career break, do a course and then return back to their original career. They do their course for the challenge, the interest and sense of achievement. It doesn't have to be seen as a road to something else, although if it turns out to be, so be it!

Ask away if you have any questions about the environmental side of things. Hope I haven't waffled on too much.

Dave

 

[lurker]

A downside of scientific training is you scream at the telly when CSI and the like are on.

Jim
Ex Leicester Univ Dept of Genetics (home of the discovery of Genetic fingerprinting) - Now on my Third career and finally earning decent money.

 

[AndyBoyd]

Hmm interesting thread Byron

I am a PhD physicist who worked in the Oil and Gas Business for many years, it's very lucrative, and they even allowed me to be a part time academic at their cost running research programs that mutually benefited both parties (The Uni and the company)

It was so lucrative I'm now retired at 45 to bring up the kids and do what I want to do.

It's good advice to look at the ageing demographics, Geoscience, Engineering Physics and Maths are all in demand but you need to have a good degree from a good place with good grades to get the well paid jobs.

The Indians and Chinese are flooding the market now but many have poor degrees from unheard of places, so you need to stand out above these people.

There are a lot if self employed contractors out there now who hop from one industry science job to the next earning a lot of money, you need to be canny to plot a career into the right area where there is a severe shortage of people and choose one where after say 5 years you can be very experienced.

A good tactic seems to be work for a big company first to gain experience and get their name on your CV then go independent and start building your nest egg.

The skill shortage for technical (Engineering and scientific) is real and it's a massive problem for companies and research outfits, many are relocating to India and China not because it is cheaper but that is where the educated grads are coming from.

If you also think wider than Britain that always helps, certainly science and engineering qualifications are much more highly regarded in mainland Europe and the US, rather than in the UK - I'm a chartered Physicist and a Chartered Engineer, that means a lot here in Italy and The Netherlands to the general public, it means nothing in the UK especially as every man and his dog can use the Engineer title (Here in NL where I am this week you need a degree masters/Phd and relevant experince and to be a full member of your institute before you can get the name Engineer Boyd (replaces Mr) and then refer to myself as an Engineer (In my case Dr Ing Boyd).

Talk to a technical recruiting agency and Head hunters to see what they are looking for and where the gaps are in the market i.e AT Kearney (There are many). They are very willing to steer you at the high level (you may need to blag your way in to get them talking - but hey it's a jungle out there and you must look after yourself. One Guy I took on just before leaving the big oil co lied to the recruiters that he had certain qualification's, then once on their books had a phone meeting saying he was now thinking of doing another degree to increase his earning potential and quality of life, took their advice on where to focus on and career options and then slipped away and never spoke to them again, 6 years later I took him on and he is now earning more than a GP with a 8 to 5 lifestyle. Not bad and very smart of him