NOOBIE - first time wardrobes

[tankard]

Hello Folks, my first time here, bit nervous of asking naff questions, but I gotta start sometime

Here goes: I'm gonna build me own built-in wardrobes. Floor to ceiling. Four doors (430/17") wide and 2m high. Plus a top box on top will be 50cm +a bit. The ceiling is 100 inches high.

Goinna use mdf - what else did you expect - and here's my question:

How do I join the boards together. Nothing fancy now. You know butting - if that's the right word - together at 90 degrees. Do I glue n' screw...
(Thanks for reading this)

 

[Gary S]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm sure someone much more experienced than me will reply to this, but my view would be to use a router to cut a rebate in the base MDF then glue & screw the vertical sides into this rebate. This will ensure alignment and give it some strength.

Might be wrong, but I'm sure I'll be corrected very quickly if I am!

Cheers

Gary

 

[j]

Welcome to the forum.

As Gary said, i'm sure someone who's actually done this before will be along shortly. You may want to consider pockent hole screws and/or biscuits.

HTH
J

 

[Keith Smith]

Welcome to the forum,

You have a host of options, here's four I can think of,

Easiest is screws, Powerdrive screws or specialist MDF screws are best as they are very thin, standard screws tend to spilt the MDF along the edge.

For a stronger joint you could use Confirmat screws but they are harder to use as you need to pre drill.

For an invisible joint biscuits are hard to beat, but you need a biscuit jointer and there is a fair bit of skill required to get everything lined up perfectly. And there is no going back, once it's stuck its stuck.

You can use pocket hole screws and they give a semi invisible joint but you would need a special jig and I don't think they give a fantastically strong joint with MDF.

So I'd probably keep it simple and go for Powerdrive screws and PVA adhesive.

Hope this helps

Keith

 

[tankard]

... You may want to consider pockent hole screws and/or biscuits.

HTH
J

Hello j, thanks for your ideas. But I did say *Nothing fancy now*. I'm gonna have to google to find out what you just said. Whoosh! Makes sign of hand flying back over head..!! LOL

 

[tankard]

... my view would be to use a router to cut a rebate in the base MDF then glue & screw the vertical sides into this rebate. This will ensure alignment and give it some strength.

Might be wrong, but I'm sure I'll be corrected very quickly if I am!

Cheers

Gary

Hello Gary S, this sounds like precision work to me. That's not my first skill. I'm a basic boy. Thanks for your imput though

 

[tankard]

...screws, Powerdrive screws or specialist MDF screws are best ...

For a stronger joint you could use Confirmat screws but they are harder to use as you need to pre drill.

For an invisible joint biscuits are hard to beat, but you need a biscuit jointer and there is a fair bit of skill required to get everything lined up perfectly. And there is no going back, once it's stuck its stuck.

You can use pocket hole screws and they give a semi invisible joint but you would need a special jig and I don't think they give a fantastically strong joint with MDF.

So I'd probably keep it simple and go for Powerdrive screws and PVA adhesive.


Keith

Hey Keith, I could understand some of this. Wow loads of ideas. Thanks matey. Although, I'll have to google those names you've quoted, coz *I know nuffin'*.

How hard are Confirmat screws to use?
How tricky is it for a noobie to use these biscuit thingies?
I think Powerdrive or MDF screws are winning so far.

Any other thoughts, please...

 

[Gary S]

Hello j, thanks for your ideas. But I did say *Nothing fancy now*. I'm gonna have to google to find out what you just said. Whoosh! Makes sign of hand flying back over head..!! LOL

If you are a true 'noobie' then DON'T PANIC! All these terms will make sense over time as you experiment and try new things (and buy new tools! :lol: ).

If you want a basic, reliable option then I would second Keith's suggestion and go with 'glue and screw' - other options may be stronger or more asthetically pleasing but good old glue and screw should work just fine.

Just make sure you use MDF type screws, it will make a big difference to using normal wood screws. Apart from that just go for it - MDF is quite cheap so if you go wrong just buy some more! It's when you start 'playing' with hardwoods that mistakes become more costly...!!

Good luck - make sure you take some pics and let us know how you get on...

 

[Steve Maskery]

Welcome to the forum.

See if you can get hold of an old copy of GW. I wrote an article on this exact subject a wee while ago. I'm afraid I can't tell you which one as I've lost my own index , but I bet someone here has the answer.

I used pocket-hole screws and veneered MDF, and I'm delighted with the result. I'd use the same method again.

The problem with wardrobes is the size. Old wardrobes are small, because people were smaller and had fewer clothes. Modern wardrobes need to be capacious, and that means assembly in the bedroom as it's jolly hard getting a large wardrobe up a tight staircase.

Good luck
Steve

 

[DomValente]

Hi Tankard, welcome.

Have I missed something? Why do you want to butt joint the boards if your ceiling is just over 8 feet tall, you can buy the boards in that length.
I'm assuming the framework will be made of timber and even if it is made of mdf you can glue screw and fill then paint it.

 

[tankard]

Have I missed something? Why do you want to butt joint the boards

Hello DomValente, ok wrong choice of words. Although I did say at 90 degrees, meaning the way the upright meets the cross piece/shelf, if you know what I mean.

I'm assuming the framework will be made of timber

Umm, I never said nuffin 'bout framework. Have I missed something?

 

[tankard]

See if you can get hold of an old copy of GW. I wrote an article on this exact subject a wee while ago.

I used pocket-hole screws and veneered MDF, and I'm delighted with the result. I'd use the same method again.

The problem with wardrobes is the size. Old wardrobes are small, because people were smaller and had fewer clothes. Modern wardrobes need to be capacious, and that means assembly in the bedroom as it's jolly hard getting a large wardrobe up a tight staircase.

Good luck
Steve

Hello Steve, thanks for the suggestion, but what is GW..??
Perhaps I can be given a link to see this article :lol:

pocket-hole screws and veneered MDF

sounds like techie stuff to me. :roll:

The problem with wardrobes is the size. Old wardrobes are small, because people were smaller and had fewer clothes. Modern wardrobes need to be capacious, and that means assembly in the bedroom as it's jolly hard getting a large wardrobe up a tight staircase.

Yep, spot on Steve, I had planned to do the work upstairs in the room. Blow the mess. She'll understand, I'm sure

 

[DomValente]

Ah ! Suggest glue and pocket screws or blocks

Dom

 

[ByronBlack]

I would advise doing some more research on here and via google before you buy any MDF or timber. Pocket hole screws are simply screws that go into the pieces at an angle inside a drilled 'pocket' so that it hides the screw.

Like this:

A Kreg kit (do a google search) available from most good tool shops is an excellent way of getting started. All that is needed is a cordless drill and the kit.

Biscuits are just simply a wooden biscuit shaped piece of timber that fits into two slots that are made with a biscuit jointer, like this:

For that you'll need a biscuit jointer, which ranges from about £50 for a budget one to over £200 for a good one.

Personally, I would go with the pocket screws as to me it's the easiest option and gives a strong joint. You can glue the two edges, and the pocket screws act like clamps while the glue sets.

Hope that helps.

Have you thought about how you are going to finish the wardrobes?

 

[Keith Smith]

Hey Keith, I could understand some of this. Wow loads of ideas. Thanks matey. Although, I'll have to google those names you've quoted, coz *I know nuffin'*.

How hard are Confirmat screws to use?
How tricky is it for a noobie to use these biscuit thingies?
I think Powerdrive or MDF screws are winning so far.

Any other thoughts, please...

Confirmat screws are pretty big and need to have two different sized holes drilled into the joint to make them fit and not split the MDF. If this is just for shelves in wardrobes you won't need the strength and screws will be fine.

If you wanted to try biscuits you would need to buy a biscuit jointer, more trouble than it's worth if you are just planning to make one set of wardrobes. Plus MDF dust is nasty so the less cutting you have to do in your bedroom the better.

I think Powerdrive or MDF screws are winning so far.

Yep me too :wink: :lol:

Although you could use knock down joints or blocks as DomValente suggested

If you look at http://www.screwfix.com you will find they have a decent selection of MDF screws and knock down joints.

Keith

 

[tankard]

... DON'T PANIC! All these terms will make sense over time as you experiment and try new things (and buy new tools! :lol: ).

If you want a basic, reliable option...go with 'glue and screw' - other options may be stronger or more asthetically pleasing.

Just make sure you use MDF type screws, ...Good luck - make sure you take some pics and let us know how you get on...

OK Mr Mainwaring, Sir (doffs cap that's not there, and nods a bow)... LOL :wink: I hope you understand I'm quoting Clive Dunn in Dad's Army

I am sure I'll be spouting these new phrases meself to someone else before long.

I must say I like the glue n' screw option, although what did you mean when you said: *other options may be stronger or more asthetically pleasing*. Is there an option that looks more prettier. 8)

And thanks for the tip about using the fancy MDF screws - I suppose you can get 'em anywhere, although there's always the *best deal* places.

Who do you recommend? Online, or local (helpful, Indian family run, but expensive) hardware shop.

 

[tankard]

Have you thought about how you are going to finish the wardrobes?

Wow, how kind you lot are..!!
Such a lot of really useful info.
I like the pictures, thanks ByronBlack

And yeah, the finish is gonna be a coat or two of Jewsons primer/undercoat stuff, applied with foam roller. Then at least two coats of...well actually, I've been using HomeBase own Duracoat lately. It goes on both wood door frames and walls n' ceilings. Just used it in the front room. I've found it goes on well, and looks good. And 'er indoors likes it too.... I'm talking 'bout the paint finish..!! :roll:

 

[engineer one]

since you are claiming to be new at this how about some more advice.
start small. mdf is HEAVY when used in 8 foot lengths.

so i suggest you break the wardrobe down into smaller units.
plan what you want, and the kinds of clothes you are going to hang up.

for instance does swmbo have many long dresses?? if only a few, then you only need a small section to take these and raincoats etc. for suits, trousers and shirts etc you generally only need a unit less than 1220 mm high.
so you can make the wardrobe in sections that go one above the other.
it will be easier to handle and particularly on your own, to move around.

you will want drawer units too.

since you have few tools, i suggest you get the bits cut to size at b&q or another shed. personally i would always put a back on a wardrobe, to add strength and stability, plus reduce the amount of things which drop out of sight.

join the sides together with "SPAX" or Reiser screws, drill pilot holes first, and support it with glue. white glue is best, but titebond is great. make the units only about 600 wide max to ensure stability and accuracy, as well as lower weight, amazing what you can hang in a unit that wide.

max front to back is 600 , but you can work with 500 too.

as for the doors think about them not being in one piece unless only 610 high other wise they will be heavy and need at least 3 hinges. use kitchen type hinges for adjustment. also kitchen drawer slides allow for easier movement of drawers. make them rather like the ones they used to use in old fashioned cloth shops, with a lower front to show what is in them. hide them behind doors.

good luck

paul :wink:

 

[tankard]

since you are claiming to be new at this how about some more advice.
start small. mdf is HEAVY when used in 8 foot lengths.

so i suggest you break the wardrobe down into smaller units.

We want a bottom unit 2m high, with a 500+ box on top.

plan what you want, and the kinds of clothes you are going to hang up.

Just shirts on one rail, and trews on another. One on top of the other. Two doors wide (17x2=34 inches = 870ish)

for instance does swmbo have many long dresses?? if only a few, then you only need a small section to take these

No ball gowns in 'ere, they're accommodated elsewhere

for suits, trousers and shirts etc you generally only need a unit less than 1220 mm high.

I'm planning on two sections 37" / 950 high. I measured me shirts n' trews and that's what they are. Also, 950x2 = 1900 plus a bit (4" / 100) for the kick board or whatever you call it, makes me 2m high door.

you will want drawer units too.

No thanks :?

since you have few tools, i suggest you get the bits cut to size at b&q or another shed.

Yes, already considered that, but thanks for mentioning it.

personally i would always put a back on a wardrobe, to add strength and stability, plus reduce the amount of things which drop out of sight.

I totally agree. The carcase will be 18mm. Can I get away with 15mm for the backs?

join the sides together with "SPAX" or Reiser screws, drill pilot holes first, and support it with glue. white glue is best, but titebond is great.

That's another screw to add to the list of possibles. I suppose you consider these better than mdf/Powerdrive/Confirmat screws. I dunno

make the units only about 600 wide max to ensure stability and accuracy, as well as lower weight, amazing what you can hang in a unit that wide.

I want two side units at 17" /430 and the centre hanging space to be twice that ie 34" / 870ish.

max front to back is 600 , but you can work with 500 too.

It'll be 600. That fits behind the door into the room's handle.

as for the doors think about them not being in one piece unless only 610 high other wise they will be heavy and need at least 3 hinges. use kitchen type hinges for adjustment. also kitchen drawer slides allow for easier movement of drawers. make them rather like the ones they used to use in old fashioned cloth shops, with a lower front to show what is in them. hide them behind doors.

As I said no drawers. Far too fiddly for me to do. But I do like your idea of lower fronts.

Thanks for this Paul. Most helpful

 

[engineer one]

glads to be of some limited help, and make you think a little more
as for the backs you can use as thin as 6mm it is strangely strong in this context. really depends upon the economics.sometime thicker is much cheaper.

as for the drawer idea, you can buy kind of kits, or make very plain ones
say 12mm bases screwed under 18mm sides, with the runners underneath. not to complex. :roll: :twisted:

paul :wink: