Newbie + a question

[Norton]

Hi all,

After messing around with woodwork using rubbish tools and even worse wood (cliché scaffold boards...) I've decided to take my interest a whole lot more seriously so have invested in multiple decent tooling and materials.

I've been inspired b a few YT channels namely Blacktail Studios and Maurice Blok. and have adopted the 'if they can do then why can't I' approach. I've joined as I l quite enjoy sharing my efforst with other like minded folks and more likely, learn what it is I did wrong so I can improve.

I drawn to carving wood using power tools and abrasives so in amongst my recent purchases there is a pair of Kutzall discs which I'm itching to use despite being a bit frightening!

I'm also looking forward to my latest purchase arriving which is is this ---->

I bought it blind but it functions. well and was in regular use prior to sale. It's a Startrite tilt arbour saw however here is where the question is, I can't see anywhere what it's exact model it. From what I've searched it seems to be a TA300, can anyone confirm this?

It was a bit of a daunting purchase but my previous experience with typical hobby saws with pressed steel construction, wobbly fences and so on lead me to buying this. Now to do it justice I guess!

Thanks everyone!

 

[Daniel2]

Hello Norton,
Welcome to the forum, although I can't answer your question
myself. Be sure that someone will be along soon, that can.

 

[Norton]

I found out it's a T300. Welded top, 1.5kw, 300mm blade etc. Lovely but, I tried it for the first time today and - it spins a few revolutions then blows its fuse.

Swear words.

Now for the trouble shooting.

 

[PDW125]

Sounds like shorting in the capacitor or one of the rotor/stator windings. Could also be rubbish in the back of the motor if it’s an open frame - seen that where something shorts the motor when it spins and centrifugal force throws it outwards.

 

[Norton]

Hi, I hoped it was the latter as when I got the saw it was packed with dust however it's a closed motor. It was still so rammed though it surely had to affect its ability to cool itself.

I removed the motor today and cleaned the entire saw body and moving parts, replaced the mains cable and inspected every other cable for damage however there want anything untoward to see. I did dismantle the motor but internally it was clean.

I think I'm left with replacing the capacitor and failing that, the motor.

 

[Norton]

Might have made some progress. It seems it'll run like a champ with the belts off and with them on but minus the blade. It's a 300mm 60t heavy thing and probably takes a bit if effort to get spinning.

It seems I need some sort of time delay fuse or a soft start device. Does this sound plausible?

 

[ajs]

Sounds plausible to me. Are you trying to run this on a domestic 13A socket? If so 2HP (1.5kW) is pushing it for a simple design. I've no experience with you particular saw but basing that on air compressors - 1.5HP used to be the limit for a plug in type. Soft start allows 2 and now even 3HP but that is with modern power electronics for the soft start, more that about 15 years ago you can essentially rule out such a feature.

I suspect this was on a 16A circuit originally. What did it come with in terms of a power lead? One final thought - which "fuse" is tripping and how old is the building wiring? More recent editions of the wiring regs call for an RCD on all ground floor sockets. If that's the case here a big motor could easily cause the RCD to trip.

 

[David with splinters]

Welcome Norton. AJS is right (loving the bike names btw), you need to install the saw on a 16A MCB circuit as the starting current will pop 13A fuses.

Good luck.

ps. I’ve got a Norton and had an AJS 350 lightweight

 

[Norton]

It's irritating as I have a 3hp compressor sat next to that runs perfectly.

1. Yes this is a 13a circuit.
2. New build house, about 12 years old.
3. MASSIVE lead.
4. Its the fuse in the saws 3 pin plug.
5. Never tripped the RCD.

 

[David with splinters]

Understand it’s frustrating but I’m certain that a 16A circuit will sort it. Get an electrician in to sort it. I think you used to be able to get slow blowing 13amp fuses but think they’re history now.

 

[Norton]

pipper. I'm in a rented house at the moment!

 

[Norton]

Is this still definitely the case given the motors has 12.4a max load rating on its plate?

 

[David with splinters]

I think so. Search this forum for ‘16A’ and you’ll find plenty of previous discussions about it. Get an electrician in to take a look. If your workshop has a dedicated circuit he might be able to change the MCB and fit a 16A plug and socket for the saw. There a lot of load when starting up a motor with a 300mm blade to spin. Especially if geared via pulleys and a belt.

 

[Myfordman]

Is this still definitely the case given the motors has 12.4a max load rating on its plate?

yes the motor could easily draw 30 + amps on start up. the 12.4 amps will be the max running current

 

[okeydokey]

I don't know enough about electrics to provide a definitive solution but Norton said its the fuse in the 13a plug that blows NOT the rcd in that case I fail to see how an upgrade from his normal domestic power supply will make a difference.

Norton - you say that without the blade it works well so perhaps the blade is binding on something or a spacer is missing causing the blade to bind on the motor or other part. With the belt(s) off does the saw blade turn freely? as if its binding or overstiff to move then perhaps the motor is stalling due to excessive load/difficulty in turning the blade and then blowing the fuse?

Please confirm that it had a standard/domestic 13A plug when you bought it.

Have you tried putting the original fuse in the original plug back?

 

[Norton]

It has the 13a plug it came with still but the fuse it came with was already blown. Matey who I got it from revealed he ran it hardwired to a wall spur.

It does make sense that it needs a 16a power circuit as 16a is what it'll be fused for and clearly on start up it's drawing over 13.

The blade spindle bearings feel fine and it'll run with no blade. I am contemplating replacing them anyway for preventive maintenance.

 

[Doug71]

I bought a second hand spindle moulder which ran off a 13amp plug, I used it for a couple of years without any problem. When I came to sell it I thought I would swap the old cracked plug for a nice new rubber one to make it look better. When I opened up the old plug I found a blown fuse with a piece of 15 amp fuse wire clipped alongside it. I tried the spindle moulder with just a 13amp fuse and it blew every time I started it up. I spoke with my electrician, he just laughed and described it as "An old farmers trick"

 

[Stevekane]

Ive just fitted a “Soft Start Module” to my regular small hobby site saw with great sucess, I think, and you need more experienced people on here to confirm this, that these work by smoothing out and limiting the inrush current so giving you a nice soft start, Ive just typed 16amp soft start module into the internet and various ones pop up at quite reasonable sub £20 prices, if this would work you would also have a nice soft start on your saw too?
Steve.
Just as an afterthought, but is your saw definately just 1.5kw? The reason I ask is that my little site saw is 1500watt (1.5kw) as are many things,,and they don't blow fuses, with a big, by comparison, 300mm blade I would have expected a bit more power? My understanding is that whatever your motor size inrush current is your enemy and if you really do have just 1.5kw then the effort involved in getting that lot moving would be considerable,
Steve (with apologies to those that really do know about these things)

 

[okeydokey]

Ahh ran off a wall spur (or is that a fib and there is a fault ?) not a 13A plug - I think ring mains can carry 32A. Spurs are usually fused at 13 amp the same as a plug

An electrician would be able to advise if its possible/safe to install a spur off your ring main but would need to be unfused or more than 13amp fuse and depend on the rcd. All sounds dodgy to me so maybe a new supply for this item back to the main fuse board.

Idea... If you have an electric cooker and it has a plug socket you could try plug into that as the cooker circuit is heavier cable/fuse as an experiment. If all is ok then perhaps you need to get a dedicated circuit installed.
You need proper advice, maybe there is an electrical forum somewhere else and they could advise!
Ask Startrite what power is needed?

 

[Jones]

I have a welder with a short 13A to 16 A extension lead. The 13 A plug has a 15 A fuse wire in it as Doug said above. While I couldn't recommend this from a safety point of view it does work and for short periods and no other big loads on the ring at the same time I can't see a problem.