New Workshop equipment

[Some bloak]

Hello everybody- I'm a total newbie here and very much look forward to learning how everybody else gets on in their woody dealings.

My question is concerning setting up and equipping my own workshop. I have some sound but fairly basic wood working experience gained over the years but I still have a lot of learning ahead of me. I intend to start on a hobby type of mission but would want to take on commissions for beds, bookcases and tables etc. as I go along. I'm not looking to go flat out as soon as possible on a trade basis so maybe could get by with lesser spec machinery for a couple of years to start with.

I've been looking at Record equipment as the prices would allow me to equip a small workshop for a reasonable budget- under £10k?. I know that these machines like many others these days are manufactured in China but I quite like the look of them. I realise that they won't stand the long test of time like the Wadkins or other 'green battleships' of old as i call them, but what are the range of modern Record machines really like?. There seems to be a mixed bag of reports but many seem quite positive. If anyone can lend me their experience and opinions on Record or any other comparative brands I'd be most grateful. I'd be looking to buy a planer/thicknesser, table saw, pillar drill, possibly a mortiser and a bandsaw. Any tips on extractors would also be much appreciated too. Many thanks.

 

[MARK.B.]

Try doing a search, there are hundreds of posts on here that will help you make a choice.

 

[shed9]

A budget of >£10k will stretch to some Hammer (Felder) kit which is German made and built to last.

That said, don't underestimate the cost of the other requirements of a small shop; hand tools, glues, finishes, clamps, blades, work surfaces, storage, clamps, decent lighting, extraction ducting, wiring, some more clamps, other power tools (miter saw, cordless drill, etc), even more clamps.

And that's not even including the one thing most people miss out on a work shop list - the actual wood to work with.

Either way, good luck and enjoy.

 

[Wuffles]

A budget of >£10k will stretch to some Hammer (Felder) kit which is German made and built to last.

That said, don't underestimate the cost of the other requirements of a small shop; hand tools, glues, finishes, clamps, blades, work surfaces, storage, clamps, decent lighting, extraction ducting, wiring, some more clamps, other power tools (miter saw, cordless drill, etc), even more clamps.

And that's not even including the one thing most people miss out on a work shop list - the actual wood to work with.

Either way, good luck and enjoy.

How about clamps?

 

[Dan j]

Have you looked at second hand stuff. If you're not in a rush and have time to look around you can often pick up the heavier duty older stuff for quite cheap, especially if you are able to use three phase.

Local general auctions, or joinery workshops that are going out of business. Sometimes old farmers who are retiring have decent heavy duty stuff but it often needs a good clean up.

 

[tomasg]

Dont be put off by three phase stuff out there ..so long as the motors are " dual voltage "
The build quality will be miles better than the newer "industrial hobby" level mostly single phase machines
and be a fraction of the cost
Large single phase motors can have a huge starting draw on some applications and trip your breaker ..
A three phase motor with a vfd can be soft started among other things
Look for the 240v triangle symbol on the motor nameplate .. which is called " delta "
This means it can be wired for low voltage (easy as a plug) thus very suitable for VFD/Inverter use
read Bob Minchin's (nine fingers) induction motor pdf
Just make sure to see the 240v triangle symbol and get yourself a bargain
provided you see the machinery is in good nick and has the specs you want
Their are much more machine choices to choose from when your in the know . :wink:

Look at someones workshop with industrial machines so you can GRAB ahold of some machinery and feel the
machines flex here or there ......with permission of course .
Then have a look at an industrial hobby level machine and just poke with your wee finger the similar
Achilles heel bit that flexed when you grabbed the real machine
and feel the difference
You can afford a .BILL PENTZ rated cyclone that must have at least a 3hp motor
and a pleated filter design ...not the bags that circulate the finest most airborne dangerous dust particles
or choose no filter at all ,Huge motor and blow it out the wall . (homer)
A 240v motor could have quite a large starting current and a VFD for say a 3hp motor is about £210 for a uk device
on ebay ...search for " inverter 2.2kw " instead of vfd's in the search box, and huanyang vfds are rubbish
Just make sure that the vfd you choose is 240v IN as there is a flood of used devices listed thats's
3 phase in only.
How much are your lungs worth ..... cheap dust collection equals cheap lungs .

Have a blast researching /shopping
Good Luck
Tomas

 

[RobinBHM]

the first thing is do you have 3 phase? There is a much wider range of cast iron equipment available 2nd hand in 3 phase.

With a £10k budget why not visit a second hand machinery dealer and see what you can get for your money. You will have some bargaining power if you buy a few machines and probably free delivery. If nothing else make some comparisons with new machines.

Look for: wadkin, sedgewick, scm, minimax, multico, felder.

Buying 2nd hand will take longer but you will get professional machines at the same price as the new record machines and at prices that will command a much better re-sale value if you decide to upgrade, change etc.

Certainly some of the record machines are good, forum members like their bandsaws -try and see some of these in the flesh and compare.

http://www.usedwoodworkingmachines.co.uk/catalog/

http://www.twsbridgwater.co.uk/

 

[cammy9r]

Hello everybody- I'm a total newbie here and very much look forward to learning how everybody else gets on in their woody dealings.

My question is concerning setting up and equipping my own workshop. I have some sound but fairly basic wood working experience gained over the years but I still have a lot of learning ahead of me. I intend to start on a hobby type of mission but would want to take on commissions for beds, bookcases and tables etc. as I go along. I'm not looking to go flat out as soon as possible on a trade basis so maybe could get by with lesser spec machinery for a couple of years to start with.

I've been looking at Record equipment . I'de be looking to buy a planer/thicknesser, table saw, pillar drill, possibly a mortiser and a bandsaw. Any tips on extractors would also be much appreciated too. Many thanks.

Hi, with the exception of the pillar drill i got those as a package from d&m. All record power machines, pt260, bs350 ,fm25, ts250 for around 3k but you could get larger PT and bandsaw. As much as i would like the older cast machines i dont think my floor could take it.
Only problem so far was a broken swivel castor on a wheel base but new set sent out next day foc.
If not abused then what will go wrong with them, a motor or bearings or perhaps a belt. It is just wear and tear, the motor on my bosch gcm12sd lasted 8 years before needing a new field coil and it has worked hard.

 

[Graham Orm]

I have a brand new condition stand for a Record BS350 band saw advertised on here for £25. If you buy one or any of the other models see what they want for one, it may be cheaper to buy mine.

 

[deema]

For new kit that will last, there is either the German Hammer / Felder which for me has far too much aluminium incorporated into the design, the Italian SCM which again has lots of aluminium or alternatively the last remaining British machine manufacturer that produce the closest to Wadkin cast iron quality I think there is, Sedgwick, which is my favorate. Secgwick produce excellent quality machines that you will never need to replace and will last many generations of use. Simple to use and maintain and extremely ridgid construction. For many their lack of digital gauges makes them a none starter but if you are in your own / small staff who you can train, they are a delight to use.

The main machines you will benefit from are in the order I would prioritise

Saw - either a panel saw or a rip saw. Most rip saws with the right blade and a zero tolerance insert will cut adequately sheet material, but if you are planning on using a lot of sheet material a panel saw with a scribing blade is the best solution.

Planner thicknesser - or separate units. 16" is a really good size. Opt for either a spiral or Tersa block, my personal preseference is the Tersa syste. Either of the systems take the frustration and time element out of blade replacement.

Spindle moulder with power feed. A Maggi power feed is probably one of the best and that's the one I selected to go with my spindle. Big and powerful spindle as you can get / fit.

Morticer - free standing that can take a 3/4" chisel in hardwood / 1" in softwood. The Sedgwick Morticer is probably the best new option you can get.

Tenoner, two or three spindle, my choice again would be the Secgwick

Bandsaw I would actually buy a secondhand Wadkin EEC resaw and convert to single phase. It will take a small blade, but also allow you to prepare any material and stop you needing a circular saw that can take a blade larger than 12". (This is my next upgrade to replace a Startrite 14S5.

Either if the three brands I've suggested would be a good investment and should you decide to upgrade a machine or sell up will sell secondhand for a very high price compared to other brands available in my view.

 

[Some bloak]

Thanks everyone, there's some really good pointers here and certainly food for thought. The list is most helpful Deema and thanks for taking the trouble. I really need to look at some of these machines in the flesh and compare them.
I gather that dust extraction will probably be made up with a couple of machines- something quite big for the table saw and planer thicknesser and probably something smaller for the hand tools or bench top stuff?. The box units that you suspend in the workshop to filter out anything airborne I imagine to be not very effective?.

 

[heimlaga]

One think to keep in mind:
If you want to get going with a hobby and slowly develop it into a part time business you need to be very well aware of where every penny goes so that you get maximum increase in productivity and versatility for every penny spent. Otherwise you end up spending a fortune that you can never earn back on tools that aren't appropriate for the job.

Beginner grade machines have very low resale value on the secondhand market so all money spent on that kind of machines is essentially lost. Medium grade machines also cost a lot more to buy than you can ever get back so you loose quite a bit of money for every upgrade.

My policy is to buy good machines but find ways to make do with fewer of them. After all planer and thicknesser and table saw are the basic machines that do most of the work.
When my hobby became a side income I bought a combination machine consisting of 610 mm capacity planer/thicknesser and 3,7kW table saw equipped with sliding table and a 2,2 kW spindle moulder with tennoning sled. A super solid industrial machine from 1957 which I rebuilt completely to very high technical standards. From before I already had a drill press.
I did the rest of the work by hand the old laborious way. Every time I want to increase productivity I buy one more good quality machine and can reduce my hand tool work further. My hollow chisel mortiser is a super solid floor standing machine with plenty of capacity bought secondhand and totally rebuilt. I had never owned a bandsaw before when I bought a 100 years old wreck of a 24" bandsaw and rebuilt it to as new condition and modern standards. One step at a time and no money wasted. Every machine is good enough to fill their place 30 years into the future.

I have choosen to buy cheap old machines in bad condition and rebuild them because to me that is the only affordable way to get high quality machines utilizing the resources I have to their maximum. I invest my improductive time whan I am out of work or not healthy enough to work for pay.
If I was inundated with well paid work and short of time then new or almost new secondhand machines would be the optimal solution. Maybe your situation is somewhere between those two extremes...... choose what fits you best!

 

[deema]

I would second buying second hand machines. My entire workshop is made up of secondhand machines that I've bought for a fraction of the new price. They are all either Wadkin, Sedgwick, Mutico, Startite or Meddings. All hand held machines are always bought brand new and virtually all hand tools are secondhand. I buy the best condition floor standing machines I can and the brands I gave are all built proof build quality and extremely easy to strip down and rebuild. In every case, after buying a machine I've stripped and rebuilt it. This is mainly to clean and ease, align and tighten everything to ensure its running properly. With the exception of a few bearings and a spindle I've not had to buy any replacement parts to get the machines back to 'as new condition'. A strip down and rebuild normally takes a day. I don't buy machines that need to be restored.

The only downside is if you need machines quickly, In which case new is the way to go.