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New tool question - Clifton Bullnose Plane

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Togalosh

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I've a question regarding my brand new Clifton 770 Bullnose Plane & would appreciate answers/s or some advice please.

( http://www.axminster.co.uk/clifton-clif ... rod791116/ )

It is my first expensive hand tool & it's so nice to use & hold apart from 1 detail & I'm not sure if it's purposeful or an oversight.

It's the blade - it sits proud of the body on 1 side by 0.5mm if the other side is flush & so if I'm shooting the edge or planing a rebate shoulder (with it on it's side) & need to change planing direction I have to adjust the blade to be flush or it fouls the part it's running on & so on & so on...this does not seem right to me. The blade would be much better if it was exactly the same width as the body...or am I missing something?

Thanks
 

Paul Chapman

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The blades on all shoulder and bullnose planes are deliberately made fractionally wider than the plane body.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 

Richard T

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Yes, rebate irons are deliberately wider than the body of the plane.

I guess if you have the iron centred Steve, it will be proud by the right amount both sides. (.25mm)
 

Cheshirechappie

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The first 'proper' tool I bought (about thirty years ago - gulp!) was a secondhand Preston bullnose. It's a lovely little plane, which I use in preference to a block plane.

At some time in it's life, a previous owner has trimmed the sides of the blade flush to the sides of the body (there are marks on the body plating showing where he's used the oilstone). This in no way hinders the plane's operation; indeed I think it improves usability, and is well worth doing, with the caveat that I'd be inclined to take the blade out of the plane and stone the sides carefully to a fit. The only downside is that great care must be taken in sharpening to keep the edge square.

I have seen a Lie-Nielsen video on Youtube showing the use of shoulder planes, which advocates the slacking of the clamp and skewing the blade so the side is flush to the body when working against an edge. Clearly, that increases blade overhang on the other side, and the blade must be reset after the job.

I've no idea which approach is 'better'. They clearly both work. Your choice, it would seem!
 

Togalosh

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Richard T":1qcjsuk8 said:
Yes, rebate irons are deliberately wider than the body of the plane.

I guess if you have the iron centred Steve, it will be proud by the right amount both sides. (.25mm)
Paul Chapman said:
The blades on all shoulder and bullnose planes are deliberately made fractionally wider than the plane body.

Can you tell me why this is please - what function does it serve ?

I had thought to even out the blade (.25 each side) but it would still mean the body would not sit quare on the work ..& they spend a lot of effort getting the body square so it seems counter intuitive.

Thanks for your replies..I'm glad I did not post a review before asking - phew!
 

Togalosh

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Cheshirechappie":1849v19r said:
The first 'proper' tool I bought (about thirty years ago - gulp!) was a secondhand Preston bullnose. It's a lovely little plane, which I use in preference to a block plane.

At some time in it's life, a previous owner has trimmed the sides of the blade flush to the sides of the body (there are marks on the body plating showing where he's used the oilstone). This in no way hinders the plane's operation; indeed I think it improves usability, and is well worth doing, with the caveat that I'd be inclined to take the blade out of the plane and stone the sides carefully to a fit. The only downside is that great care must be taken in sharpening to keep the edge square.

I have seen a Lie-Nielsen video on Youtube showing the use of shoulder planes, which advocates the slacking of the clamp and skewing the blade so the side is flush to the body when working against an edge. Clearly, that increases blade overhang on the other side, and the blade must be reset after the job.

I've no idea which approach is 'better'. They clearly both work. Your choice, it would seem!
The thought briefly crossed my mind but then the thought of messing up a perfect tool/blade made me stop & wait.
Also the bevel edge would be a real mission to keep true without one of those very expensive grinding systems (which I'm saving up for)..there's a lot of room for error over .5mm especially as I've just got the hang of normal sharpening.

It's good to know that yours was modified & that you like it..that makes 3 of us thinking the same.

Thanks for your time
 

Richard T

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I think it might be something to do with having enough width to play with - I haven't done much rebate cutting with a plane but when I do it will be with the #78 which (as they all do) has the extra width of iron too.

Could it be that sometimes wood springs out, expands when cut ? :?
 

Togalosh

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Hello Richard,

At the moment I'm not cutting rebates but trimming them & shoulders & tidying up tennons etc..but it must be something like that.
I'd call & ask them but I can't find the company details by usual lazy googling..

You must be spoilt for choice when it comes to choosing which plane to use !
 

woodbloke

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Togalosh":knae42py said:
Can you tell me why this is please - what function does it serve ?

I had thought to even out the blade (.25 each side) but it would still mean the body would not sit quare on the work ..& they spend a lot of effort getting the body square so it seems counter intuitive.
You'll probably find that if you're trying to clean up a rebate (for example) a dead flush blade won't get right into the corner...in theory it should, but in practice it don't. A little 'overhang' ensures that the blade reaches completely into the corner so that you don't get left with a tiny 'step' - Rob
 

DTR

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woodbloke":1uelzhmk said:
Togalosh":1uelzhmk said:
Can you tell me why this is please - what function does it serve ?

I had thought to even out the blade (.25 each side) but it would still mean the body would not sit quare on the work ..& they spend a lot of effort getting the body square so it seems counter intuitive.
You'll probably find that if you're trying to clean up a rebate (for example) a dead flush blade won't get right into the corner...in theory it should, but in practice it don't. A little 'overhang' ensures that the blade reaches completely into the corner so that you don't get left with a tiny 'step' - Rob
Chris Schwarz advocates a slight overhang of the blade in order to keep the rebate square:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... d-practice
 

jimi43

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woodbloke":1irhcnc2 said:
Togalosh":1irhcnc2 said:
Can you tell me why this is please - what function does it serve ?

I had thought to even out the blade (.25 each side) but it would still mean the body would not sit quare on the work ..& they spend a lot of effort getting the body square so it seems counter intuitive.
You'll probably find that if you're trying to clean up a rebate (for example) a dead flush blade won't get right into the corner...in theory it should, but in practice it don't. A little 'overhang' ensures that the blade reaches completely into the corner so that you don't get left with a tiny 'step' - Rob
This is the view I had...

Indeed, virtually the first iron I made was for my brass infill shoulder plane and, not knowing this vital fact left me with a plane that cut beautifully but had a step as Rob describes.... :oops:



Since it took me days to make...I put up with it for now but will be making a replacement sometime soon!

Jim
 

Modernist

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One way I have seen to optimise the situation is to lap the edges of the blade down on some fineish wet and dry with a sheet of paper either side of the blade so it ends up with a marginal protrusion and you protect the plane sides while doing it.
 

arnoldmason8

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I also have a Preston bulnose plane. The blade on mine is getting very short.
Would the blade from the Clifton fit the Preston ?
This is a bit of a theoretical question at the moment because nobody is listing spare blades for the 770 but I assume they will become available at some tine in the future.

Cheers Arnold
 

Modernist

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arnoldmason8":3mooejq1 said:
I also have a Preston bulnose plane. The blade on mine is getting very short.
Would the blade from the Clifton fit the Preston ?
This is a bit of a theoretical question at the moment because nobody is listing spare blades for the 770 but I assume they will become available at some tine in the future.

Cheers Arnold
I am sure Ray Isles would make you one.
 

Togalosh

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As ever I'm finding that most things in woodwork are nowhere near as straight forward as they seem at first.

Thanks everyone, I'm very grateful for your help as I'd be really battling without it..
 

Cheshirechappie

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Modernist":1ni7uaic said:
arnoldmason8":1ni7uaic said:
I also have a Preston bulnose plane. The blade on mine is getting very short.
Would the blade from the Clifton fit the Preston ?
This is a bit of a theoretical question at the moment because nobody is listing spare blades for the 770 but I assume they will become available at some tine in the future.

Cheers Arnold
I am sure Ray Isles would make you one.
Ray does indeed list spare irons for 077 planes on his website ( www.oldtoolstore.com ), and since Record took over the Preston product line in 1932, that should fit.
 

jimi43

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Cheshirechappie":2rhtc2f1 said:
Modernist":2rhtc2f1 said:
arnoldmason8":2rhtc2f1 said:
I also have a Preston bulnose plane. The blade on mine is getting very short.
Would the blade from the Clifton fit the Preston ?
This is a bit of a theoretical question at the moment because nobody is listing spare blades for the 770 but I assume they will become available at some tine in the future.

Cheers Arnold
I am sure Ray Isles would make you one.
Ray does indeed list spare irons for 077 planes on his website ( http://www.oldtoolstore.com ), and since Record took over the Preston product line in 1932, that should fit.
Indeed! And at £13 it really is a bargain!

Jim
 

Eric The Viking

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I've got a well-used Stanley #90. The blade overhangs by that .25mm, but it can slide sideways on the bed quite a bit (you can lock it with the cap iron, but the knurling on the cap iron screw is done for humourous effect - you have to use a screwdriver really). I've found empirically that, if rebating, I need that small overhang to avoid the step Jimi describes, but if I'm trimming up tenon shoulders, etc. then it's sometimes better to have it flush (but square!). Since you only need one overhang at a time, I suppose I could stone it to get 0.25mm only. That way, setting it by laying it on its side on a flat surface would be easier.

The only real issue is that the corners of the blade seem to wear disproportionately, so you're often forced to hone it just to restore the corners, when the centre of the blade is still sharp enough. It's 30 years old now (had it from new) and Stanley steel of that vintage isn't wonderful so it doesn't hold an edge too well. The Clifton ought to be far better in that regard.

E.
 

matthewwh

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Ray does two types of blade for the 077.

There is the thinner RI006 with a narrow neck:


and the straight sided RI007:


which is interchangeable with the Clifton 3110 iron, which also fits the Clifton 077:


Hope this helps.
 
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