New table saw - American or UK?

[sploo]

... saw stop tech. .....may save your bacon at some point.

Dunno, I think it increases risk: bizarrely, it can be switched off.
So if the saw stop encourages you do continue using unsafe american style techniques the day may come when it is switched off and fails to work, or just fails anyway.

You need to switch it off when cutting conductive materials (the trigger I believe is capacitance based).

Encouraging dangerous practice is a fair argument; but no more so than saying that a seatbelt encourages reckless driving (which may statistically be correct, but, overall, I'll still buckle up).

 

[MikeJhn]

The only problem I envisage with the Sawstop is once it activates its expensive to buy the piece of equipment it destroy's and has to be replaced, meanwhile your saw is out of action, but what price are you fingers worth? Unsafe practice exempt most get along without one in the UK as we tend to be a little more safety conscience over here and keep our crown guard's on and trench/dado cut on a router.

Mike

 

[sunnybob]

"and yes, many have questioned my sanity for moving from Hawaii to the UK",

OH YES! count me in on that poll!
Dont fancy a house swap do you? I'm a lot close to the equator than the UK, and I'm STILL cold!

 

[Jacob]

......
Encouraging dangerous practice is a fair argument; but no more so than saying that a seatbelt encourages reckless driving (which may statistically be correct, but, overall, I'll still buckle up).

Two push sticks is the seat belt equivalent - you get used to it don't feel right without them in your hands.
Cuts become extremely unlikely and the work actually gets easier - you find you have a longer reach and also can get in close to the blade with only the risk of trimming your push stick.
The saw-stop is an incredibly elaborate/expensive alternative, and not fail safe which makes it less safe than push sticks. In any case if you are using other machines you need the push stick habit there too, other saws, spindle, planer etc.
I suppose the saw stop might protect a complete silly person or a child, but only if it is switched on and working to start with.

 

[sploo]

Two push sticks is the seat belt equivalent - you get used to it don't feel right without them in your hands.
Cuts become extremely unlikely and the work actually gets easier - you find you have a longer reach and also can get in close to the blade with only the risk of trimming your push stick.
The saw-stop is an incredibly elaborate/expensive alternative, and not fail safe which makes it less safe than push sticks. In any case if you are using other machines you need the push stick habit there too, other saws, spindle, planer etc.
I suppose the saw stop might protect a complete silly person or a child, but only if it is switched on and working to start with.

Well... we're probably splitting hairs here but I'd equate push sticks to good general driving practice (i.e. something you should do every day). The saw stop mechanism is like the seat belt - something that's there, and will effectively be invisible until an accident happens. You do need to engage a seat belt, but equally you do need to ensure the saw stop is enabled or disabled as per your chosen material.

Nothing is fail safe - a push stick could get caught or splintered, or thrown back at you. Life is 100% fatal etc. I do wholeheartedly agree with the use of a pair of bird's mouth style push sticks though.

BTW The basic saw stop idea isn't that complex - a capacitive detector and a firing mechanism to throw an alum block into the blade. I'm sure making it reliable wasn't a simple engineering task, but the actual technology isn't space age.

 

[heimlaga]

I would not bring a Saw Stop across the pond. There are too manu unanswered questions about how it will handle 50hz electricity plus the fact that you will need a big transformer.
In European good practise the first line of defence are a short (or retractable) rip fence and a riving knife and an overarm guard. The second line of defence is a pair of push sticks. Quite the opposite of American practises.

Three phase electrisity is also a lot more common in Europe than in USA. In Britain you may or may not have acress to it. Up here we have three phase power everywhere. Three phase is a far superrior system for driving stationary machines but as I said you are goint to a part of Europe where you may not have it.

Sliding tables are great if the workshop is large enough. Rather unpractical in very cramped conditions. I think you should choose your saw accordingly.

You may be able to cut some costs by bringing over stuff you already have. If you get a small transformer you could make use of your old hand held 110 volty machines. Do you have any other stationary machines than the table saw?

 

[sploo]

I would not bring a Saw Stop across the pond. There are too manu unanswered questions about how it will handle 50hz electricity plus the fact that you will need a big transformer.
In European good practise the first line of defence are a short (or retractable) rip fence and a riving knife and an overarm guard. The second line of defence is a pair of push sticks. Quite the opposite of American practises...

Three phase is sadly not common in the UK. Good point about 50Hz and Saw Stop though; the tech means there's an added level of unknown. I don't know if they're officially sold in the UK.

From what I've seen, riving knives are just starting to make a comeback in the US. Somewhere on t'Internet there's a good video showing a talk by Kelly Mehler; where he's pretty scathing about US table saw safety practices, and he noted that US saws used to have riving knives. I don't know if there's evidence to back up his claim, but it was an interesting talk nonetheless.

 

[Jacob]

......
Nothing is fail safe - a push stick could get caught or splintered, or thrown back at you. Life is 100% fatal etc. I do wholeheartedly agree with the use of a pair of bird's mouth style push sticks though....

Getting caught is no prob you just let go, but usually they just get trimmed. They don't splinter if made of the right stuff (some plastics, mdf, ply etc) . It's hard to see how one would get thrown back - if they get too close to the cutters they just get trimmed shorter.
They really are very safe.

 

[sploo]

......
Nothing is fail safe - a push stick could get caught or splintered, or thrown back at you. Life is 100% fatal etc. I do wholeheartedly agree with the use of a pair of bird's mouth style push sticks though....

Getting caught is no prob you just let go, but usually they just get trimmed. They don't splinter if made of the right stuff (some plastics, mdf, ply etc) . It's hard to see how one would get thrown back - if they get too close to the cutters they just get trimmed shorter.
They really are very safe.

I had the tip of a plastic one catch a rear tooth once, and it got lifted over the top and flicked back in my direction. Rookie mistake at the time, but mistakes happen

EDIT: I should probably clarify; I always use push sticks on any cut where it's feasible and appropriate - I just make sure they don't get near the trailing edge of the blade now!

 

[Trevsf1]

I moved back from California a few years ago and brought all my US tools back with me,all 110v.

The biggest is a Craftsman cast iron bed table saw with a router wing which has performed faultlessly.

Having said that if I had thought of a SawStop I would have definately gone for one as your probable shipping part container back anyway so the additional cos would be minimal. They make a model with a motor configuration #1 which is 3 hp, 1 phase, 230V, 13 A.

The rest of their configs can be seen at http://www.sawstop.com/support/product-comparison

Cheers

 

[RobinBHM]

If you have room a sliding table panel saw, with say a 1200mm bed would be a fantastic machine for use in a home workshop. As Jacob and Custard say, the versatility and accuracy of these machines is hard to appreciate until you have one. If you have the budget look for Felder or SCM / minimax new or secondhand.

Its always worth chatting to a dealer, as they are always doing factory clearances and may have something suitable in the pipeline. These guys for eg are in Essex.

http://www.liquidationmachinery.com

 

[MusicMan]

There's a nice Wadkin in the For Sale forum right now ...

 

[spiritburner]

There's an Axminster store in Sittingbourne about an hour's drive from where I am (Essex),

Have you done the drive yet I came over form Spain at Christmas last and found pretty much anything in the South East of the UK, Birmingham downwards needs 45 minutes adding to Google journey times because the traffic is so damn awful. It really shocked me, that and the potholes I hadn't driven in the UK for 24 years. I haven't allowed for the rain factor either !

As regards buying equipment do some serious homework as decent machinery over in the UK seems to be a lot more expensive than it is in the US. The range in the UK seems to be a lot better now though but its almost going back to the middle ages if I want anything over here in Spain half decent. I import from other parts of Europe where its cheaper and faster to deliver. They don't do hobbies here apart from Cigarettes, Football, Wine or Beer and Girls
I would love to get stuff from the UK but post Brexit its a waste of time now, The cost that is added to any item be it a €5.00 drill to whatever bares no resemblance to the value of the goods, I get the impression that the Hacienda here is kicking the UK big time for what they did and I hear it's the same in France , Germany and Holland where I have uk friends living .

You will of course be penalised by HM Customs and Excise so check that out before buying and exporting and then importing to the UK direct form the US.

Good luck.

 

[HOJ]

Have you done the drive yet

I would imagine @LarryG may have got sorted by now in the 6 years that has passed since he posted the the original Q

 

[Spectric]

Can we please start a new thread rather than using one that is seven years old !!

 

[recipio]

Can we please start a new thread rather than using one that is seven years old !!

I wonder what the OP did eventually ?
Just to be aware that some manufactures offer dual 110/ 240 volt motors depending on the wiring connections. Yes, they run a little slower but not that you'd notice. I imported a DeWalt 746 saw about 15 years ago before they were even available over here and it's been brilliant. Getting the 5/8 inch arbour blades usually means ordering from the US but you have access to all kinds of accessories like moulding heads not available over here. All of these depend on having a long arbour to take a Dado head so that's something the OP would need to take into consideration.

 

[Jacob]

I'm in the process of moving from US to UK, and it's also time to upgrade my tablesaw, I think. I've 'made do' so far on a Dewalt contractor-grade saw, which is good as contractor-grade saws go, since it has a large cast iron table, and i've upgraded it with a nice Biesmeyer fence and added an integrated router table to the right. It's served me pretty well, and I've built some nice cabinetry out of it, but the external belt-drive 1 1/2 hp motor and total lack of dust control plus overall lightweight construction and lack of adjustability has me coveting something a bit better, and in the nature of a cabinet style saw.

So I can either buy one in the US, use it a little while before we move, and ship it over with the rest of the household goods (= little if any extra shipping cost), OR I can wait and buy one in the UK.

Before the UK move came up, I've had my eye on a Sawstop cabinet saw; the ones that would probably fit my needs best is about US$3000-4000. The safety factor of the Sawstop is one motivation, but not necessarily the primary one - I agree with the other threads that technology is the last line of defense in safety - proper usage is the first - but having that last line of defense is pretty nice. But as the Sawstops have evolved over the last few years, they've become a really top quality saw in their own right, regardless of the extra safety factor. I've read the threads on using US motors on UK power, and it's definitely a consideration, but I'm planning to bring several other 110v/60hz machines and will probably fit my shop out with dual wiring for 110v and 240v.

But I'm also intrigued by the sliding table style saw - they basically don't exist in the US, at least in the amateur woodworking shop, and not even in any trade shops I know. They seem to offer better control and precision, and seem to be pretty well equipped. And cost-wise they're comparable to what I'd pay for the SawStop. But I'd definitely want to see some in person before making the decision, and i haven't been able to find a store that carries a wide range. There's an Axminster store in Sittingbourne about an hour's drive from where I am (Essex), and they've got their own brand, Jet, Bosch and Sedgwick, but no Scheppach, Hammer, Felder, SIP etc. So lots to learn and investigate for me!

I've been reading a few threads here but would appreciate thoughts - buy US or buy UK?

Thanks from a new member to the forum!

Buy UK but Italian; SCM, Minimax, etc.
Sliding table on my Minimax Lab300 was a revelation. So many things you can do with it which I hadn't even thought of.
Top essentials: riving knife plus crown guard, sliding table as long as possible.

 

[Noel]

Zombie thread? Yep.

As @Spectric suggested, start a new thread.