New Chisels From Veritas

[Alf]

S'funny, I came >this< close to mentioning the W&P Aristocrats; didn't know you had one, BB. In that cutaway drawing in the ad, is that a slot in the end cap? In other words, can you disassemble the handle from the blade, if, for instance, you wanted to change it? Not that I'm addicted to changing chisel handles or anything...

Oh who am I kidding? Yes I am. :lol:

 

[bugbear]

S'funny, I came >this< close to mentioning the W&P Aristocrats; didn't know you had one, BB. In that cutaway drawing in the ad, is that a slot in the end cap? In other words, can you disassemble the handle from the blade, if, for instance, you wanted to change it? Not that I'm addicted to changing chisel handles or anything...

Oh who am I kidding? Yes I am. :lol:

Yeah. The chisel is threaded, and so is the cap; the handle is drilled all the way through, and the shaft is just threaded rod.

The upshot of all this is that the (slotted) cap can be turned, and pulls the whole assembly together. Hmm. Hammer with a metal hammer would probably mar the screw slot a bit.

It's also the earliest example I know of the sort of blade shape LN do on their DT chisels; quite a thick body, ground so that the actual side-edge is close to zero height, but with the grinding at quite a steep angle. Low enough to fit "under" a dovetail, but not much lower.

Compare and contrast typical English pattern makers' paring chisels.

If I'd remembered how Lee Valley made their drawbore pins, I'd have been all over the W&P reference, but I'd forgotten.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... at=1,43456

As it is, it was just the first piece of "old backwater chisel design" that came to mind.... !!

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

...
Definitely looking at concepts similar to the Ward and Payne Style .... but still different. ...

My guess would be "Perfect" patent (if that is what it is called). Definite improvement on the W&P Aristocrat.

www.roseantiquetools.com

 

[bugbear]

...
Definitely looking at concepts similar to the Ward and Payne Style .... but still different. ...

My guess would be "Perfect" patent (if that is what it is called). Definite improvement on the W&P Aristocrat.

The inventors of the perfect handle design circa 1850 (USA) were pretty energetic in exploiting it. I'm sure if they'd found it good for chisels, they'd have made and sold chisels.

I know collectors of perfect handle tools (*), and they've published lists. No chisel appears, although the idea was patented (USA 816626)

BugBear

(*) See Gary? Collectors can be useful to the rest of us !

 

[GazPal]

...
Definitely looking at concepts similar to the Ward and Payne Style .... but still different. ...

My guess would be "Perfect" patent (if that is what it is called). Definite improvement on the W&P Aristocrat.

The inventors of the perfect handle design circa 1850 (USA) were pretty energetic in exploiting it. I'm sure if they'd found it good for chisels, they'd have made and sold chisels.

I know collectors of perfect handle tools (*), and they've published lists. No chisel appears, although the idea was patented (USA 816626)

BugBear

(*) See Gary? Collectors can be useful to the rest of us !

I never said collectors weren't useful, but did say collectors tend to drive prices higher. I'll have a rummage in the old workshop later, because I'm almost certain we had a set or part set of those perfect handle drivers. one problem I do recall - concerning scale handled drivers - was their handle's liability to separate if allowed to dry out. Socket handled chisels had a tendancy to let the blade loose at in-opportune moments.

 

[Alf]

Manufacturing-wise, the Perfect Handle approach would drive up the price I imagine. Don't see Rob going for that except for very obvious user benefits - which I, for one, can't see. This does not mean they're not there.

Thanks, BB. I'd failed to take the drawbore pins into consideration too - I think they fell under the radar while I was hors de combat. I will study and inwardly digest - all of which will not help my agog-ness one bit...

 

[Vann]

If I'd remembered how Lee Valley made their drawbore pins...

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... at=1,43456

Open the little view window (down by the pricing) and all is revealed...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Harbo]

Ah - I get it!
Very clever and does away with the socket, though sockets do look nice.

I suppose there could be a danger of whacking the wood instead of the metal cap and driving it down and perhaps force a split at the bolster?
Wider cap or bolster or resin impregnated wood would help?

One on my LN's became loose and fell onto the floor - shrunk a bit because of the cold weather - luckily no damage as it fell onto rubber matts!

Rod

 

[Max Power]

Lots of people report problems with the handles coming loose on LNs Rod
and have used various methods to prevent this but one of the simplest I've heard of is a good squirt of hairspray into the socket and on the handle and apparently it holds like a limpet

 

[Jacob]

If I'd remembered how Lee Valley made their drawbore pins...

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... at=1,43456

Open the little view window (down by the pricing) and all is revealed...

Cheers, Vann.

You do have to laugh though when you look at all that LV drawbore nonsense. In reality any old bit of steel (or wood for that matter) with approx the right diameter and a pointed end, will do for drawboring

 

[Jacob]

Lots of people report problems with the handles coming loose on LNs Rod
and have used various methods to prevent this but one of the simplest I've heard of is a good squirt of hairspray into the socket and on the handle and apparently it holds like a limpet

Or buy a chisel with firmly attached handles. I recommend older Stanley 5001s. Ten or twenty of them for the price of one LN LV etc.

 

[bugbear]

(*) See Gary? Collectors can be useful to the rest of us !

I never said collectors weren't useful, but did say collectors tend to drive prices higher.

I know (I have reading skills too ;-) ).

I was making a point on a matter other than price.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Lots of people report problems with the handles coming loose on LNs Rod
and have used various methods to prevent this but one of the simplest I've heard of is a good squirt of hairspray into the socket and on the handle and apparently it holds like a limpet

Or buy a chisel with firmly attached handles. I recommend older Stanley 5001s.

Marples blue chip are just as good ;-)

BugBear

 

[GazPal]

(*) See Gary? Collectors can be useful to the rest of us !

I never said collectors weren't useful, but did say collectors tend to drive prices higher.

I know (I have reading skills too ;-) ).

I was making a point on a matter other than price.

BugBear

:lol: At least we're both literate. :lol:

Eye new dat. :wink:

 

[GazPal]

Lots of people report problems with the handles coming loose on LNs Rod
and have used various methods to prevent this but one of the simplest I've heard of is a good squirt of hairspray into the socket and on the handle and apparently it holds like a limpet

Or buy a chisel with firmly attached handles. I recommend older Stanley 5001s. Ten or twenty of them for the price of one LN LV etc.

I tend to agree in terms of opting for chisels with fixed handles. Many old timers would pein a rivet through the socket due to problems with handles working loose during use. Not for the sake of saving the blade, but more a case of one's own safety and that of the piece being worked on if the blade were to decide to take a random nose dive. Otherwise they'd periodically need to re-fit the handle to the socket.

It's bad enough when I raid wor lasses nail varnish remover to kill the odd bit of superglue, but - being a baldy - raiding her hairspray would definitely take some explaining. A dollop or two of boiled linseed oil on the shank might serve the same purpose???

 

[Jacob]

Seems to me that the only advantage of socket chisels over the others is that when you lose the handle it is relatively easy to make and fit a replacement.

 

[GazPal]

Seems to me that the only advantage of socket chisels over the others is that when you lose the handle it is relatively easy to make and fit a replacement.

That's certainly a valid point. It's also possible to add a longer or shorter handle to socket chisels if necessary and I think LN offer such spares as an option. I suppose it's a good option to have for those with different hand sizes, but would think it more sensible to order the correct size in the first place, or simply trim the existing ones to fit. I can't imagine another reason for switching handles, as overlong or shorter than standard handles can tend to prove troublesome during use.

A striking button on the handle is well worth considering for the sake of flexability between mallet and hammer, but this feature was normally the preserve of firmer and mortise chisels.

 

[Harbo]

Well we will all have to wait and see what comes out?

I have a set of my fathers black 5001's and a set of blue 5002's that I bought in the late 60's - both made of crappy steel as they will not keep an edge - they curl over?

Rod

 

[GazPal]

Well we will all have to wait and see what comes out?

I have a set of my fathers black 5001's and a set of blue 5002's that I bought in the late 60's - both made of crappy steel as they will not keep an edge - they curl over?

Rod

That's strange as I've never had that problem with neither 5001 or 5002's. Edge curling normally indicates over heating during grinding and/or sometimes too shallow a primary bevel angle.

 

[Jacob]

Well we will all have to wait and see what comes out?

I have a set of my fathers black 5001's and a set of blue 5002's that I bought in the late 60's - both made of crappy steel as they will not keep an edge - they curl over?

Rod

Mine are spot on. And a few 5002s (I think that's what they are anyway). The 5001s are noticeably harder than the blue ones and take a little longer to hone.