My thoughts regarding the comp............

[johnny.t.]

Having read the other thread I thought I would make a quick post about my thoughts........

Firstly in the vain hope you will see where I'm coming from and not sulking as Gordon has been accused of. I for one entered the competition simply to support Allen's efforts as for a while this forum has been on the downhill slide with many fewer posts and very little work posted (a huge shame). I believe Allen started the comp for these very reasons and it is very good of him to do so.

That being said this comment from this months judge " I picked boxes that looked good and served the purpose for which they were made to contain something.Some where more orniments than box's. " is really annoying for all taking part . The brief for the comp was NOT for a practical box, so judging it on reasons NOT in the brief is completely wrong! Is the judge ignorant of the wording in the brief? People taking part have put thought and effort into their entries, to have them dismissed for something a judge thought up himself that was never in the brief is a real slap in the face for them!
This happened with the fiasco of the judging of the egg cups too, when peoples entries were dismissed for not being easily wipe-able!!!! That was never in the brief!! What was in the brief was 'emphasis on tool control and finish' but this was ignored as obvious tool marks on some top placers showed. What does this do for those that sanded all the marks off theirs???.......it annoys them.

It may be a good idea to ask the judge in question to read the breif and judge using that or get a judge who will....

Also why is Tony Walton pulling out? So what if he is a RPT, it don't make you better...... There are many hobby turners who produce things just as good if not better than those belonging to the RPT, they just have no desire to join an organisation, I really don't think he would be winning every month. What's next beginners only?........................................................

I know its all just for fun but its getting silly

Sorry Allen, I know you are doing your best and I don't want to p@ss you off but it just needs saying. If it carries on like that it will die out and that will be another shame for this forum.

 

[Blister]

Am I missing something ?????????

Earlier in the challenge entrants asked for the Judges feedback " as it would help us to know what he was thinking "

Now the judge is letting the entrant know what he is thinking and why he chose the top 5 and is getting negative comments for doing so

I cant work this out , its a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation for the judge and they offered to help :roll:

makes me feel like stopping the challenge as I am now getting severely hack off

and this was supposed to be FUN !!!!!!!!

 

[myturn]

On the one hand I agree with you JT, the judging has been inconsistent and not necessarily adhering to the requirements as stated in the rules.
As with any judging, it depends who the judge is and their own interpretion of the rules and their idea of what looks good.
As with any competition, the judges decision is final.

But look at it the other way and don't take it seriously as a competition for the reasons stated above.

It's just a challenge, and mainly aimed at those less experienced turners I would say, to produce something a bit different to what they would normally do.

Any of the more experienced turners who take part , those who sell for a living for example, should take little satisfaction in knowing they have beaten a bunch of amateur hobbyists.

Allen, you have slightly missed JT's point, that no-one said the egg-cups should be easy to clean, nor the boxes capable of containing something! These criteria may be obvious to some but not so obvious to others.

Don't get hacked off though, you're running the comp well and we all appreciate it, but you must expect some comment and disagreement so take it in your stride. And I'm sure the judges don't give a fig if we agree with their decisions or not as that is part and parcel of being a judge.

 

[johnny.t.]

Yes then in that case you are missing something. George is judging on things that are not in the brief, this renders it all pointless and upsets your entrants ! Can you not see that? Its in no way a damned if you do damned if you don't, not even is that slightly the case! The judges feedback is a good thing. Its just a simple case of needing to have it judged on the words in the brief, simple as that otherwise nobody knows what they are doing!

I am genuinly sorry to have annoyed you more that was not my intention, for your part I don't think anyone could complain at all.

 

[gus3049]

Am I missing something ?????????

Earlier in the challenge entrants asked for the Judges feedback " as it would help us to know what he was thinking "

Now the judge is letting the entrant know what he is thinking and why he chose the top 5 and is getting negative comments for doing so

I cant work this out , its a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation for the judge and they offered to help :roll:

makes me feel like stopping the challenge as I am now getting severely hack off

and this was supposed to be FUN !!!!!!!!

Hi Allen,

Yes it is supposed to be fun and it was and still can be. MY only complaint is that we are trying to make something to the brief and its not getting judged on that brief. Surely, the judges comments are to be how he feels the entries fit the brief. As Johnny has said, although we all accept the conditions of the competition, we invest a lot of thought and effort and don't expect that effort to be dismissed out of hand for unexpected reasons.

The actual order is not important, the points are not important, we are getting to make things we wouldn't otherwise attempt (some of us) This is all positive and I hope the good side of all this continues. I intend now to stay in the competition (OH whoopee I hear you all cry) but PLEASE let the judging be based on what YOU have specified as the aim at the outset. Thats all.

i feel guilty about starting all this but there are times when its better to express how one feels rather than let it fester and then just drop out for no apparent reason as so many appear to have done. It now seems that I'm not the only one who feels this way so all I can say is sorry if I've upset anyone but instead of getting upset, why not address our feelings and try and understand our point of view?

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

Feelings are better out then in.

This is meant to be fun and it is very "un-fun" to spend time and effort on a design when a judge will not concider it due to a reason we wasn't aware of. Can be easily knocked over, needs to be wipe'able etc. Yes some asked for the judge to comment but that isn't what JT is getting at. Its the judging on factors that we wasn't aware of.

 

[monkeybiter]

From a personal point of view, I think that the more that leave the better, maybe if we get down to three left in I'll have a chance!

Just joking.....

Seriously though, I was a bit unhappy at the platter judging as the 75% requirement seemed to cease to be important. Then in the eggcup challenge, there were problems. I thought about jacking in , but then I weighed up the benefits of staying in, and the likelyhood that it was just sour grapes on my part, and I realised that I would be better, and so ultimately would my turning, if I stayed in.

There might be better ways of judging, perhaps a joint decision by two or three, but it's just a forum competition, for fun, for experience, and for free. All the 'officials' are volunteers, and Alan is actually out of pocket, more so each month.

So, please stay 'in'......Alan, and thanks.

P.S. whoever's judging the decorated platter, I'm going to struggle with that so how does a fiver sound?

 

[Paul.J]

Judge GF wrote
With this months comp the way i judged it was to look at the pics that Chas had kindly put up and looked and looked at them without looking to see who had done them.

If George just looked at the piccys Chas put up without reading how and why these particular pieces were made why is it one of the requirements by us to write how it is made :?:

 

[tekno.mage]

Judge GF wrote
With this months comp the way i judged it was to look at the pics that Chas had kindly put up and looked and looked at them without looking to see who had done them.

If George just looked at the piccys Chas put up without reading how and why these particular pieces were made why is it one of the requirements by us to write how it is made :?:

I had assumed (possibly incorrectly?) that entrants were asked for a brief description of how the item was made for the benefit of other members who were viewing the entries - ie it's just general information about the making of the piece, similar to what people often include when they post pictures of their work on the site.

 

[Paul.J]

Judge GF wrote
With this months comp the way i judged it was to look at the pics that Chas had kindly put up and looked and looked at them without looking to see who had done them.

If George just looked at the piccys Chas put up without reading how and why these particular pieces were made why is it one of the requirements by us to write how it is made :?:

I had assumed (possibly incorrectly?) that entrants were asked for a brief description of how the item was made for the benefit of other members who were viewing the entries - ie it's just general information about the making of the piece, similar to what people often include when they post pictures of their work on the site.

I thought it was for the judges benefit as well :? Perhaps i am wrong,but even so if George has just looked at the photos,and just the front views,which Chas puts up than i feel the pieces have been judged unfairly :?:
Perhaps George could say if he looked at the other two photos on each box.

Edit-:
Blister wrote
Please state item size, width and height and wood type if known and a little about how you made it and what finish you used (this helps the judge)

 

[George Foweraker]

This is my final involvement with this as I did not volunteer to have dung thrown at me for supporting Allen in his efforts to instill some sort of working together into this Forum.
No I did not judge only on the pics Chas put up and I am surprised you think I am that stupid.I looked at the pics to see which ones I considered were going to be worth considering further.
To be perfectly honest I found it very difficult to pick five as i thought a lot of the work and forms were very poor to say the least.

I am sure you will all be pleased to here I will not be subjecting you to any more of my judging .

George

 

[johnny.t.]

To be perfectly honest I found it very difficult to pick five as i thought a lot of the work and forms were very poor to say the least.

Thats a lovely attitude, shows exactly what you think of others doesn't it? With this 'delightful' statement of yours it seems a good job you won't be taking part anymore.

 

[gus3049]

Thanks George,

You seem to have justified my raising the issue. Now who is bringing the words 'toys' and 'pram' to mind. Taking criticism is all part of life's rich pageant and by now you should know how to handle it.

I got up yesterday with a raging pain in the back and leg, was in a great mood when I read the results and reacted. I then spent the rest of the day half regretting the unusual lapse of cool. If you really have this opinion of us beginners, perhaps it is best if you don't continue. Hopefully, it is unnecessary for things to get any more personal.

To Allen, please will you continue with this. The basic idea is terrific and the knowledge gained from this episode can only help you make it better. The challenge is your idea but I think it belongs to the entrants too and we have a perfect right to express our feelings about the way things are going. You can see from the ideas for next year that there is still a great deal of support for the challenge.

The lists of winners by the participants is no surprise at all. i never claimed that judging was easy. The fact that everyone has different taste is what makes all the varied entries so interesting. But then as so many have already said, its not the order of merit that bothers its the effort that is dismissed out of hand. Judging by some of the comments, this has clearly been bubbling away for some time. Perhaps we now know the reason why.

I've just got back from seeing a neurosurgeon for a second opinion on my back. I now have four solid weeks of 'extreme' and very painful physiotherapy to go through. If that doesn't work its more surgery and a permanently locked back. Looks like I might be in a good mood again soon. I think my wife had better lock the keyboard.

 

[PeterBassett]

To be perfectly honest I found it very difficult to pick five as i thought a lot of the work and forms were very poor to say the least.

Poor show that man... :roll:



I don't know anything about the competition, have not entered and don't know what the brief is, however I liked very much some of the entries, especially those from johnny.t, duncanh and monkeybiter. Far ahead of my work.

 

[loz]

Oh Dear..................

 

[Jonzjob]

To be perfectly honest I found it very difficult to pick five as i thought a lot of the work and forms were very poor to say the least.

That's a lovely attitude, shows exactly what you think of others doesn't it? With this 'delightful' statement of yours it seems a good job you won't be taking part anymore.

I'm in agreement with you Jonny. I find it incredible that such a statement has been made and I like to think that it was made as a knee jerk reaction and is now regretted. If so then I hope that you will be good enough to say so?

I will also say that it will be a great shame if you decide to pull the plug on the comp Allen. It has certainly made me think out of my normal box!

Lastly, please, please will the future judges judge on what we have been asked to produce?

 

[monkeybiter]

I liked very much some of the entries, especially those from johnny.t, duncanh and monkeybiter. Far ahead of my work.

I think Mr. Bassett would make a very good judge!

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

To be perfectly honest I found it very difficult to pick five as i thought a lot of the work and forms were very poor to say the least.

Nice, and hopefully said in the heat of the moment and not to just try upset some entrants.

Most was not to my very picky and unique "hard to please taste" taste but I would not say they was poor. Most of the work was to what I would say is a very good standard.

 

[PeterBassett]

I liked very much some of the entries, especially those from johnny.t, duncanh and monkeybiter. Far ahead of my work.

I think Mr. Bassett would make a very good judge!

:lol: Haha