I had a job running a commercial router in a sign shop. The tabletop was always flat to the cutter because when the top was replaced we would mill the entire surface. I have seen several comments here and on CNCzone about shimming the table. Is there some reason why people don’t mill the tables on the small machines?
My New Router
- Thread starter Fecn
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Fecn
Established Member
Hi kc8kzn and welcome to the forum.
I have considered milling the surface for a while now, but have been worried about the MDF turning fluffy as a result... My attempts at milling a flat surface so far with a 1/2" cutter have left a stripe pattern that makes me thing things are not as level as they could be.
The other thing that's been stopping me is that I've been crazy busy with my day-job lately and not had a chance to get to the shed for the last couple of weeks.
With any luck I might get some time in there tomorrow... I bought myself a new quiet dust extractor to make things a bit more pleasant down there... Just need to find a quiet router now.
I have considered milling the surface for a while now, but have been worried about the MDF turning fluffy as a result... My attempts at milling a flat surface so far with a 1/2" cutter have left a stripe pattern that makes me thing things are not as level as they could be.
The other thing that's been stopping me is that I've been crazy busy with my day-job lately and not had a chance to get to the shed for the last couple of weeks.
With any luck I might get some time in there tomorrow... I bought myself a new quiet dust extractor to make things a bit more pleasant down there... Just need to find a quiet router now.
chipchaser
Established Member
What an inspirational thread and huge respect for the energy you display not to mention the multi faceted skill set! Several questions arising if I may:
I think you mentioned elsewhere accuracy of 0.1mm, is the machine holding that accuracy?
Did you use anti backlash nuts?
How are the slides performing, any signs of wear or play developing?
Any suggestions for source of new slides as good as your server slides?
Any chance of a set of plans or maybe "not to scale sketches" to illustrate the general arrangements of the parts and to pass on the tips and hints you picked up during the build? I expect you need to get on with earning a crust but there must be a lot of useful advice you might include about choosing suitably sized steppers and other components, how to mount the lead screws etc.
Thank you for sharing your project with us.
I think you mentioned elsewhere accuracy of 0.1mm, is the machine holding that accuracy?
Did you use anti backlash nuts?
How are the slides performing, any signs of wear or play developing?
Any suggestions for source of new slides as good as your server slides?
Any chance of a set of plans or maybe "not to scale sketches" to illustrate the general arrangements of the parts and to pass on the tips and hints you picked up during the build? I expect you need to get on with earning a crust but there must be a lot of useful advice you might include about choosing suitably sized steppers and other components, how to mount the lead screws etc.
Thank you for sharing your project with us.
Philly
Established Member
Yeah - been wondering how you are getting on with it. Are the drawer slides holding up?
Philly
Philly
A
Anonymous
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chipchaser":c6q3x8i3 said:
Chipchaser
I would suggest that you will be better off with some linear bearings (self aligning to some degree)and silver steel or some industrial linear slides (when I worked for a living :wink: (lecturer now), we usually used 'Item' slides on machines with X/Y motion) - RS components linear bearings at reasonable prices these days.
Fecn
Still loving this. Hope you can get the speed sorted as 45 minutes for the engraving must be a little disappointing? The speed musty be in there and it's still early days, I'm sure it'll come
Fecn
Established Member
For the last couple of months, most of my workshop antics have been quashed due to flood of work, a couple of colds and some very miserable weather. I'm afraid to say I haven't actually used the machine since I finished off the desktop name signs back in November. This project's sort-of on hold for the next few weeks whilst I get clear of my current paying-the-mortgage workload, but here's a flavour of what's coming soon.
Whilst I was making the desktop name signs I came to the conclusion that it was no fun whatsoever sitting on a cardboard box next to the noisy, dusty router whilst it whirred away for hours on end. When the weather's nice, I just stand outside the shed whilst the machine's running, but it's been cold and wet lately so I started to dream about a quieter router and a dust-free machine. I must make myself a stool too.
The current tool-holder is a bit sub-par and needs to be re-invented using some Niki-style inginuety so that I can more easily swap from the big router to the little router... and whilst I'm at it, I'll add some dust extraction... and a compressed-air blast to clear debris from the cutter.. and some lighting. I've got an old 3U folded steel rackmount shelf kicking around the office which I'm planning to attack soon with a hacksaw so I can turn it into a tool holder.
I had some pneumatic bits and bobs lying around, so I've already tested out the plumbing for the air blast. I plan to wire up that as a 'coolant' function from the Mach3 software.
I bought myself a new dust extractor that's super-quiet. It's a Nilfisk Alto Attix 550 and I have to say that I'm very impressed with it so far. I'll write a review of it once I've had the chance to fill up the canister a couple of times. I've been getting together dust extraction hoses and connectors so that I can do a shop-wide extraction setup.
When I was making the CNC machine, I didn't have the chance to play with my new Triton router... Once I had the chance to play with the triton, I discovered how much quieter it is than the cheapie B&Q 1500W router I have been using. As part of the B&Q sell-off I bought a second Triton to use on the machine - It's still in the shrink-wrap at the moment, but it'll be the one that ends up on the new tool holder.
When I first made my machine, a friend of mine bought the same stepper motors and drivers. He's finally pulled his finger out this week and bought himself a bunch of drawer slides which got delivered to his house today. I havne't seen the slides he bought yet, but he tells me they're good and solid with no play or kinks. He's ordered wire, microswitches, NVR and the other bits and bobs today. Around a month from now we'll get together for a weekend and make a second machine, and we'll video the construction of it all
I'd say that repeatibility was 0.1mm (or better), but the tool holder I have in place currently deflects somewhat with harder woods. When I made the name signs, I discovered that the holes in the hardwood were smaller than the pins in the softwood even though they were the same size on the drawings.
I'm not using any anti-backlash nuts - I used some braided fuel-hose and a couple of jubilee clips to connect the motors to the threaded rods. Anti-backlash nuts would undoubtedly be better - I noticed the effects of backlash for the first time when doing the lids for the boxes. Cuts in each direction were slightly different lengths (about 0.4mm I reckon)
The best price we found was from Buller ... http://www.bullerltd.co.uk/section.php/274/0
You're welcome to my sketchup drawing, but it probably doesn't convey the thing any better than the photos on this site. I'll document the construction procedure a bit better when we make the next machine - I remember I was very pleased with my 'measure nothing so there's no measurement errors' technique.
Whilst I was making the desktop name signs I came to the conclusion that it was no fun whatsoever sitting on a cardboard box next to the noisy, dusty router whilst it whirred away for hours on end. When the weather's nice, I just stand outside the shed whilst the machine's running, but it's been cold and wet lately so I started to dream about a quieter router and a dust-free machine. I must make myself a stool too.
The current tool-holder is a bit sub-par and needs to be re-invented using some Niki-style inginuety so that I can more easily swap from the big router to the little router... and whilst I'm at it, I'll add some dust extraction... and a compressed-air blast to clear debris from the cutter.. and some lighting. I've got an old 3U folded steel rackmount shelf kicking around the office which I'm planning to attack soon with a hacksaw so I can turn it into a tool holder.
I had some pneumatic bits and bobs lying around, so I've already tested out the plumbing for the air blast. I plan to wire up that as a 'coolant' function from the Mach3 software.
I bought myself a new dust extractor that's super-quiet. It's a Nilfisk Alto Attix 550 and I have to say that I'm very impressed with it so far. I'll write a review of it once I've had the chance to fill up the canister a couple of times. I've been getting together dust extraction hoses and connectors so that I can do a shop-wide extraction setup.
When I was making the CNC machine, I didn't have the chance to play with my new Triton router... Once I had the chance to play with the triton, I discovered how much quieter it is than the cheapie B&Q 1500W router I have been using. As part of the B&Q sell-off I bought a second Triton to use on the machine - It's still in the shrink-wrap at the moment, but it'll be the one that ends up on the new tool holder.
When I first made my machine, a friend of mine bought the same stepper motors and drivers. He's finally pulled his finger out this week and bought himself a bunch of drawer slides which got delivered to his house today. I havne't seen the slides he bought yet, but he tells me they're good and solid with no play or kinks. He's ordered wire, microswitches, NVR and the other bits and bobs today. Around a month from now we'll get together for a weekend and make a second machine, and we'll video the construction of it all
chipchaser":y8ll9j1x said:
I'd say that repeatibility was 0.1mm (or better), but the tool holder I have in place currently deflects somewhat with harder woods. When I made the name signs, I discovered that the holes in the hardwood were smaller than the pins in the softwood even though they were the same size on the drawings.
I'm not using any anti-backlash nuts - I used some braided fuel-hose and a couple of jubilee clips to connect the motors to the threaded rods. Anti-backlash nuts would undoubtedly be better - I noticed the effects of backlash for the first time when doing the lids for the boxes. Cuts in each direction were slightly different lengths (about 0.4mm I reckon)
The best price we found was from Buller ... http://www.bullerltd.co.uk/section.php/274/0
You're welcome to my sketchup drawing, but it probably doesn't convey the thing any better than the photos on this site. I'll document the construction procedure a bit better when we make the next machine - I remember I was very pleased with my 'measure nothing so there's no measurement errors' technique.
Philly
Established Member
Thanks for the update, Fecn.
Looking forward to your video build - I'm about to build a Rockcliffe design. Well, a suitable tweaked one :wink:
Philly
Looking forward to your video build - I'm about to build a Rockcliffe design. Well, a suitable tweaked one :wink:
Philly
Fecn
Established Member
Excellent stuff Philly... I'll look forward to that thread
chipchaser
Established Member
Fecn,
thanks for the info on slides etc. I am looking forward to seeing the video when you have time.
It has been very wet in Warwickshire too but we only had two days when the lower road out of our village was flooded. Looks like the weather has turned a bit better now, fingers crossed.
I tried using a manual desk top milling machine fitted with a router bit to test profile some timber. Winding those little handles was very tedious hence my interest in CNC. I found a small misalignment at the top left corner of a rectangular pocket which might have been inadequate workholding allowing the cutter to pull the work towards it. The mill claims 0.0005 in accuracy so I'll repeat the exercise to test my theory.
I am attracted to the idea of measuring nothing but guess I might end up all bitter and twisted :wink:
thanks for the info on slides etc. I am looking forward to seeing the video when you have time.
It has been very wet in Warwickshire too but we only had two days when the lower road out of our village was flooded. Looks like the weather has turned a bit better now, fingers crossed.
I tried using a manual desk top milling machine fitted with a router bit to test profile some timber. Winding those little handles was very tedious hence my interest in CNC. I found a small misalignment at the top left corner of a rectangular pocket which might have been inadequate workholding allowing the cutter to pull the work towards it. The mill claims 0.0005 in accuracy so I'll repeat the exercise to test my theory.
I am attracted to the idea of measuring nothing but guess I might end up all bitter and twisted :wink:
chipchaser
Established Member
Tony,
thanks your advice concerning rails and I do understand the potential shortcomings of drawer slides. I would like a table that could cut over an area of 600mm square, preferably a bit more. I priced up the cheapest rails, supports and bearings from RS to create 3 axes, assuming that for all but Z axis one would start from 1 metre length rails. Total £858 ex VAT.
From Marchant Dice the nearest equivalents totaled £520 ex VAT.
In both cases the extruded alloy supports for rails totalled over £200 so if another cheaper support system was acceptable one might save say £150 but do more work oneself.
Drawer slides, assuming one used a pair at each end of the table in horizontal plane and the same in vertical plane, for better location, on the X and Y and similar in Z, say 8 pairs at about £8 per pair totalling £64 ex VAT.
All the above prices also exclude delivery. IMHO I suggest that a MDF frame may not make best use of these more precise components so one looks to a steel frame at additional cost.
My question is, is it worth having a try using drawer slides in the knowledge that one may well have to upgrade to better rails after a while or perhaps be put off entirely? That is really why I asked the question about accuracy and durability. If one later found that CNC is useful and one needs a proper machine for paid work then it may be worth investing in better kit. On the other hand if it is something nice to play with but only used rarely maybe the cheap solution is enough?
I haven't forgotten that whatever mechanical solution is tried there will also be £300 upwards to be spent on motors and drives etc
Best regards
thanks your advice concerning rails and I do understand the potential shortcomings of drawer slides. I would like a table that could cut over an area of 600mm square, preferably a bit more. I priced up the cheapest rails, supports and bearings from RS to create 3 axes, assuming that for all but Z axis one would start from 1 metre length rails. Total £858 ex VAT.
From Marchant Dice the nearest equivalents totaled £520 ex VAT.
In both cases the extruded alloy supports for rails totalled over £200 so if another cheaper support system was acceptable one might save say £150 but do more work oneself.
Drawer slides, assuming one used a pair at each end of the table in horizontal plane and the same in vertical plane, for better location, on the X and Y and similar in Z, say 8 pairs at about £8 per pair totalling £64 ex VAT.
All the above prices also exclude delivery. IMHO I suggest that a MDF frame may not make best use of these more precise components so one looks to a steel frame at additional cost.
My question is, is it worth having a try using drawer slides in the knowledge that one may well have to upgrade to better rails after a while or perhaps be put off entirely? That is really why I asked the question about accuracy and durability. If one later found that CNC is useful and one needs a proper machine for paid work then it may be worth investing in better kit. On the other hand if it is something nice to play with but only used rarely maybe the cheap solution is enough?
I haven't forgotten that whatever mechanical solution is tried there will also be £300 upwards to be spent on motors and drives etc
Best regards
Fecn
Established Member
A friend of mine who saw the name plaques I made as chistmas presents for some of my clients said "Where's mine!" and pointed out that it's his birthday on the 19th March.
I still had a little bit of left-over Ipé which I'd prepared before christmas. I resawed and thicknessed some Ash for the back pieces this time.
I started out with a few test cuts on some scrap - It's been a couple of months since I made the last set of name plaques so I needed to remind myself of the machine setup and tooling. I don't know if I mentioned on this thread before, but the plastic spindle lock mechanism on the B&Q cheapie router developed a crack last year - Whilst I refamiliarising myself and doing my test cuts, the yellow button in the middle fell out and then the spindle lock stated making a worrying rattling sound... I decided it was time to hit the emergency stop button and finally start making a new tool holder for the Triton. I'd been planning on the new tool holder for ages, and the spindle lock was the push I needed to get me started...
Off with the old tool...
I figured that this time, I'd try and make the thing a bit more compact and far more rigid - I decieded that a half-box arrangement would work well.. and this time I'd design it from the ground up to allow me to use some better dust extraction.
I worked out the bits I needed for a compressed air blast system before christmas - My idea was that this could be hooked up to the 'coolant' function in the software used to clear chips from the cutter/cut.
This is pretty basic really.. a low voltage solenoid valve and a couple of tubes.
I used my table saw to cut a spare bit of laminate flooring and some MDF to fit the new router
I used the scroll saw to cut the side pieces to fit around the handle - I wanted to keep as much material as possible on the sides to maintain rigidity.
When the router is plunged down, it fits neatly in the curves.
I sorted out some holes in the laminate flooring (drill press + scroll saw)
.. and that's about as far as I got.
I actually did all this and took all these photos two weeks ago - I haven't made it back into the workshop since. It's now four days until my mate's birthday so I'd better pull my finger out.
I still had a little bit of left-over Ipé which I'd prepared before christmas. I resawed and thicknessed some Ash for the back pieces this time.
I started out with a few test cuts on some scrap - It's been a couple of months since I made the last set of name plaques so I needed to remind myself of the machine setup and tooling. I don't know if I mentioned on this thread before, but the plastic spindle lock mechanism on the B&Q cheapie router developed a crack last year - Whilst I refamiliarising myself and doing my test cuts, the yellow button in the middle fell out and then the spindle lock stated making a worrying rattling sound... I decided it was time to hit the emergency stop button and finally start making a new tool holder for the Triton. I'd been planning on the new tool holder for ages, and the spindle lock was the push I needed to get me started...
Off with the old tool...
I figured that this time, I'd try and make the thing a bit more compact and far more rigid - I decieded that a half-box arrangement would work well.. and this time I'd design it from the ground up to allow me to use some better dust extraction.
I worked out the bits I needed for a compressed air blast system before christmas - My idea was that this could be hooked up to the 'coolant' function in the software used to clear chips from the cutter/cut.
This is pretty basic really.. a low voltage solenoid valve and a couple of tubes.
I used my table saw to cut a spare bit of laminate flooring and some MDF to fit the new router
I used the scroll saw to cut the side pieces to fit around the handle - I wanted to keep as much material as possible on the sides to maintain rigidity.
When the router is plunged down, it fits neatly in the curves.
I sorted out some holes in the laminate flooring (drill press + scroll saw)
.. and that's about as far as I got.
I actually did all this and took all these photos two weeks ago - I haven't made it back into the workshop since. It's now four days until my mate's birthday so I'd better pull my finger out.
Fecn
Established Member
I reckon it cost me about 400 quid for all the bits except the router... 270 of that was the steppers and drivers.
Fecn
Established Member
The biggest annoyance I had with the last tool holder was the lack of dust/chip extraction. I got myself an old broken Dyson (with all the hoses and nozzles) from my local Freecycle group - 'Free' seemed like the best price I could find.
For this tool holder, the dust+chips need to travel upwards and unfortunately the outlet on the Triton is to the side. I didn't want to modify the router so I spent a while shaping one of the Dyson nozzles using a carbide burr to make it fit into the extraction hole.
I glued the hose-fitting attachemnt to the top with a spot of superglue to hold it in place.
Now that I've got the thing fitting properly I can build up the rest.
Time for my favorite plastic.. Polymorph. I built up the shape gradually using my fingers to ensure that the path for the chips would be smooth and clear..
The completed article...
And here's how it looks on the router... Plugs in and fits perfectly.
Now... if I can just get my two year old daughter to go to sleep then maybe I can make it back to the shed tongiht and put some screws/glue in.
For this tool holder, the dust+chips need to travel upwards and unfortunately the outlet on the Triton is to the side. I didn't want to modify the router so I spent a while shaping one of the Dyson nozzles using a carbide burr to make it fit into the extraction hole.
I glued the hose-fitting attachemnt to the top with a spot of superglue to hold it in place.
Now that I've got the thing fitting properly I can build up the rest.
Time for my favorite plastic.. Polymorph. I built up the shape gradually using my fingers to ensure that the path for the chips would be smooth and clear..
The completed article...
And here's how it looks on the router... Plugs in and fits perfectly.
Now... if I can just get my two year old daughter to go to sleep then maybe I can make it back to the shed tongiht and put some screws/glue in.
Fecn
Established Member
Hooray - The dust extraction all fits beautifully... so I glued everything in place.
Strap clamp to hold the Proxxon in place.
Locked!! - That sure is one ugly looking contraption... but as long as it doesn't fall to pieces then it's doing it's job. I almost feel embarassed with the way it looks.
Finally screwed onto the machine so it's back in action again... (not tested yet since it's 10PM) - Seems to be a good improvement on the old holder.
This thing looks so ugly that I'm almost inclined to have another go at making it... however.. I'll press it into service for a while first and see how it fares up.
Strap clamp to hold the Proxxon in place.
Locked!! - That sure is one ugly looking contraption... but as long as it doesn't fall to pieces then it's doing it's job. I almost feel embarassed with the way it looks.
Finally screwed onto the machine so it's back in action again... (not tested yet since it's 10PM) - Seems to be a good improvement on the old holder.
This thing looks so ugly that I'm almost inclined to have another go at making it... however.. I'll press it into service for a while first and see how it fares up.
Philly
Established Member
Don't worry about the looks - get it working! :lol:
Awaiting your test cuts....
Philly
Awaiting your test cuts....
Philly
Fecn
Established Member
WiZeR":1d2lyrhk said:
That's right. They actually both went in the same tool holder before too, but it was quite a pain to change between them. I wanted to make it easier swap them over... hence the strap-clamp.
If I'd have seen those Kress milling motors about 6 months ago (I think it was you who posted them on ukw) then I'd have probably used one of them instead.
