my first plane - old stanley no.4

[paul-c]

hi everyone
i don't normally post over here , i tend to stick to spinney stuff.
but i thought it was about time i tried some of this flat stuff - so i went and bought my first plane.
from a very nice gentleman in ormskirk - a retired cabinet maker /woodwork teacher called brian - a real gent.

( p.s he was also selling a kity combination machine for £175 and a record lathe with less than 5 hour usage.if anyone is interested in these p.m me and i will send you his phone no. )

i tend to prefer older tools - when they were made properly and out of better materials and i can get more for my little money.
now i know nothing really about planes so all of your comments ,good or bad, are wwelcomedand all of your advice and shared knowledge will be gratefully appreciated.

so for £10 i got myself this no.4 plane

for a further £10 i got all this
5 chisels - marples
1 stanley usa square
1 robert kelly and sons ltd liverpool and manchester tenon saw

oh and he then said " i'll give you a bit of timber to get you started "

well i think i did very well and was lucky to meet a nice guy selling a few bits of his kit.
look forward to hearing how you think i did for my first purchase. :roll:

oh and if anyone can recommend a good book for maintaining and getting the best out of planes i would be gratefull

cheers paul-c

 

[LuptonM]

I think you got the plane for about its 'ebay' value- I managed to pick one up at a carboot for £1.40 (though it needed alot more work). It looks like it has brass parts so it should be more sturdy than those with cheese metal fixtures. However the better bailey planes are USA made and have a frog with a larger contact area and a mushroom rather than balloon shaped handle

However I think you got a good deal on the chisels and saw for £10

Regarding the plane you will have to think about

- Lapping the sole
- Grinding the primary bevel of the blade
- Lapping the back of the blade
- Sharpening the blade
- Removing rust if there is any
- Refinishing the handles if they need doing (though optional and down to personal taste)

No book needed though Rob Cosman does a DVD on it

 

[marcros]

car boot sales aside, if you get some usable tools out of the haul, you have done well. After all, £20 doesnt buy much new- a disposable plastic handled tenon saw and a no name carpenters square perhaps. As for the plane, it sounds like a user, and I would guess that if you bought a cheap new one, you would still need to do most of what has been described above. If the chap used it when cabinet making, then one is hopeful that it should not be too bad as is.

 

[AndyT]

Just for the record, that's not a Stanley plane!

It has a Stanley lever cap, but the blue paint and name 'Record' round the front show otherwise. That's not a problem - the design was copied very accurately - and I think you got yourself a very good deal there!

 

[Jacob]

If it's an old plane from a cabinet maker it is most likely in good nick. I'd avoid like the plague going for the refurb/makeover. Just sharpen and go. No lapping! It is rarely necessary.
You won't know what needs doing to it anyway, until you have used it for a good while. Otherwise you might spoil it.
Ditto the other stuff. Linseed oil on all the handles. A bit of wire wool and 3in1 would improve the saw - I'd send it to a saw doctor for sharpening as it might need a re-cut.

 

[LuptonM]

Weren't japanning of bailey planes between 1962-67 painted blue?

If its a stanley it'll have bailey stamped on the base

 

[GazPal]

Weren't japanning of bailey planes between 1962-67 painted blue?

If its a stanley it'll have bailey stamped on the base

It has "Record" embossed on the upper surface of it's toe. :wink:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Record lever cap is very easily picked up cheaply if you want to head down the route of original parts, but - if she works - avoid messing with set-up, etc., until you know what you're doing. Get her used and enjoy.

They're excellent hand planes. :wink:

 

[GazPal]

If it's an old plane from a cabinet maker it is most likely in good nick. I'd avoid like the plague going for the refurb/makeover. Just sharpen and go. No lapping! It is rarely necessary.

You won't know what needs doing to it anyway, until you have used it for a good while. Otherwise you might spoil it.
Ditto the other stuff. Linseed oil on all the handles. A bit of wire wool and 3in1 would improve the saw - I'd send it to a saw doctor for sharpening as it might need a re-cut.

+1

 

[Mike Wingate]

Well spotted. Record are fine, about the same as U.K.Stanley planes. The U.S. ones are a little better, 2 of my U.S. no 4's are lighter castings though. I would find out what to do, clean it up, give it a sharpen, and if you are going to use it and why not? Buy a Smoothcut Japanese laminated blade from Axminster and a Quangshenge chipbreaker from Workshop Heaven. That will improve the quality of cut and also the longlevity will increase.

 

[Jacob]

......Buy a Smoothcut Japanese laminated blade from Axminster and a Quangshenge chipbreaker from Workshop Heaven.

I wouldn't do that until you feel you are fully competent or you won't get the benefit (if any, such as it is). Give it a few years.

. That will improve the quality of cut and also the longevity will increase.

If longevity was an issue then logically you'd keep the existing blade going as long as possible. This will probably be for life, unless you are embarking on a really massive amount of hand-only work, or crazy sharpening techniques.
Just sharpen and go - no need to buy anything!

NB the blade you have has had very little wear and has a lot of work left in it.

 

[jimi43]

I think that is a superb haul! Bravo!

Strange that he should sell a plane as a "Stanley" with a "Record" body in a "Stanley" box...odd.

I love the saw...how are the teeth?

If you consider one minute that you could have bought...four packets of brass woodscrews for that in B&Q (please don't ask me how I know that..I will deny it! ).....then you have done superbly!

Well done! =D>

Jim

 

[Jacob]

I just picked up a notion from a Chris Pye book - he talks about "commissioning" a tool i.e. getting it into usable condition with sharpening and any other minor adjustments.
I think this gets overlooked in the rush to refurb' or restore.
All tools need commissioning at some point, and for most this is all they need; clean, wire-wool the rusty bits, sharpen, set, and not much else.
So for any newly acquired tool, old or new, see if you can "commission" it first, before embarking on a makeover.
If you haven't the skill or experience to commission it then that is where you need to concentrate your efforts. Lapping is for another day!

 

[paul-c]

hi
thanks for all your comments

as Andy t says it has got a record body.

i have to agree with Jacob when he says

You won't know what needs doing to it anyway, until you have used it for a good while. Otherwise you might spoil it.

and Jacob when you say

I just picked up a notion from a Chris Pye book - he talks about "commissioning" a tool i.e. getting it into usable condition with sharpening and any other minor adjustments.

this is what i need not just for adjusting the plane but for me to learn how to adjust and what difference the adjustments will make to me using the plane.
as i say this is the first plane for me.
thanks again
paul-c

 

[jimi43]

Jacob...totally agree with you about commissioning and testing...getting used to...something I do quite a bit but I think the level of restoration or refurbishment is firmly up to the owner and anyone who wants to impose any other view on that person is seriously out of order IMHO. I don't care how much of an "expert" they purport to be.

Someone that doesn't know what they want or are in serious danger of damaging a piece of unique history should ask concensus advice but in the end...it's their property....they own it and...they can damn well do what they want with it! :wink:

Jim

 

[Jacob]

.... anyone who wants to impose any other view on that person is seriously out of order IMHO. I don't care how much of an "expert" they purport to be.

Not sure how you can impose a view as such. Is this any different from simply having a view?
Nobody has ever imposed a view on me as far as I recall, even though the tooly total refurb lobby is quite pushy, and defensive, as we see here!
Toolies and tool users have very different priorities and it can be difficult for a beginner to see the difference, which is precisely why I was drawing a distinction between commissioning and refurb.

Someone that doesn't know what they want or are in serious danger of damaging a piece of unique history should ask concensus advice but in the end...it's their property....they own it and...they can damn well do what they want with it! :wink:

Jim

Not sure that anybody should necessarily follow the consensus.
They should make their own minds up and if in doubt, perhaps do nowt.

 

[jimi43]

The woodie world is full of people who feel that their view is the only fact...indeed, it would appear that the more "expert" the person becomes...the more they want to impose their view.

There are a number of topics where this is evident every single time there is a thread...restoration, glues, sharpening, power or hand...are but a few.

Newcomers may feel that their inexperience means that they have to adopt views of others...the louder the commentator shouts...the more they feel they must believe it.

I once had a self-named "expert" on infills tell me what I should or should not do with one of my planes as if they were talking down to me...I listened...then mentally told him to go swivel on a broomstick! :mrgreen:

That is what drives me barmy....because in all of the above subjects...there is no singularly correct view...just ways of doing things. :wink:

Jim

 

[Jacob]

.....there is no singularly correct view...just ways of doing things. :wink:

Jim

Don't entirely agree.
Some ways are better than others.
If you only want to use a plane then commissioning may be all it needs and much of the advice above is way over the top - hours of work, expensive new blades, may already be in good nick anyway, etc. etc. bad advice for the would be user only.
But tool polishing is a perfectly legitimate hobby. A beginner needs to know the difference and to choose between the two approaches. Or do both if he wants to.
Useful this "commissioning" idea - I'll be referring to it in the future no doubt. :lol:

 

[jimi43]

.....there is no singularly correct view...just ways of doing things. :wink:

Jim

Don't entirely agree.
Some ways are better than others.
If you only want to use a plane then commissioning may be all it needs and much of the advice above is way over the top - hours of work, expensive new blades, may already be in good nick anyway, etc. etc. bad advice for the would be user only.
But tool polishing is a perfectly legitimate hobby. A beginner needs to know the difference and to choose between the two approaches. Or do both if he wants to.
Useful this "commissioning" idea - I'll be referring to it in the future no doubt. :lol:

In concert with my earlier statement....I respect your view...whether I share it or not or adopt it in my workshop will depend on the tool in question.

Earlier...I just "commissioned" my newly acquired No.4C because I wanted it to retain its history. Others may have been unusable without some restoration and in those circumstances the depth of restoration will be sympathetic and enough to restore usability.

Jim

 

[Benchwayze]

The plane body doesn't know what sort of lever cap is on there.
As long as the sole is flat, no cracks in the casting, and it adjusts well, all you need do is keep the iron and chip breaker in good fettle. It will last you for a long while. The more you use it the better it will seem. And that lever cap might just be later than the plane body don't forget. If the frog has a plain surface rather than the ribbed variety it most probably is older than the lever cap.,. which looks like it has a 'comma' slot, as opposed to a keyhole slot.

I am still using tools given me by an 80 plus year old craftsman who was giving up. That was in the 1960s.

Best of Luck and HTH

John

 

[woodbrains]

Hi.

Think you did well for the money. The plane is definately a Record in light disguise, but the best bit is, it is a Record of good age. I even think it has the blade and cap iron of the same age, which I think were best quality. These irons sharpen and work pretty well compared to lateer Stanley offerings, but may be a bit thin. After you have got working with the plane and got enthusiastic for planes, I would suggest the best (and possibly only) upgrade would be a 2 piece cap iron from Clifton. A lot less money than a smooth cut iron and frankly more beneficial.
The chisels look tidy and the saw is a nice vintage but probably a dovetail not a tenon. Not wishing to put a dampener on things, but the blade may well be gash, looks like a lot of rust pitting along the cutting edge to me. If you can separate the blade from the back, then a lot of rubbing with emery and wet and dry might rescue it, but you will probably have to remove all of the teeth and re cut them. It will be worth it though, and fun if you like that sort of project.

Mike.