Mortise and Tenon

[wizer]

I don't think the Leigh can be called a toy. I've never heard a bad word said by it's owners. It works very well within it's limitations. In your workspace, the leigh would be better for dust extraction. For the odd occasion you need to work on timber longer than the leigh's limit, then you could make a jig for the mortise using a router and a bandsaw for the tenons (or a SCMS and Handsaw).

That morticer is going to take up loads of room for a machine you're not going to use as often as a bandsaw or pillar drill or even a bobbin sander.

 

[Tony Spear]

Leaving aside the matter of length of stock (which I agree is a problem with the 'Rat), I have a few questions:

1: the illustration of the Leigh FMT jig (image 3) implies that you can use it to make dovetails. Is this correct?

2: The Leigh makes joints up to 1/2" x 5". By this I assume that they mean the maximum width of the tenon is 5" (fair enough I suppose) but the maximum thickness is only 1/2"? So what do you do if you're trying to put a "normal" tenon on the end of a piece of stock of say 3" nominal thickness?

3: Allowing for all the optional guides the total cost of the FMT is around £750. Is anybody going to pay that sort of money for something that will only make mortice & tenon joints?

4: Coming to the matter of length, are there many people who can handle 2.5m. lengths (for e.g. M & T's on the ends of bed rails) on their bandsaw?

 

[Chems]

1.You can't use it for Dovetails, I think thats just showing a table made with it.

2. I guess its only aimed at small furniture bits?

3. You could buy a full domino system for less!

4. Not many I'd rather use the router handheld for that sort of length.

 

[wizer]

1: the illustration of the Leigh FMT jig (image 3) implies that you can use it to make dovetails. Is this correct?

No it does not make dovetails. What that pic is showing is that it can make M&T's on that tiny model, as well as it's full sized counterpart.

2: The Leigh makes joints up to 1/2" x 5". By this I assume that they mean the maximum width of the tenon is 5" (fair enough I suppose) but the maximum thickness is only 1/2"? So what do you do if you're trying to put a "normal" tenon on the end of a piece of stock of say 3" nominal thickness?

I can't answer this, have you looked at the videos on the Leigh site? They are very informative.

3: Allowing for all the optional guides the total cost of the FMT is around £750. Is anybody going to pay that sort of money for something that will only make mortice & tenon joints?

The original FMT was\is wildly expensive and as such I never considered it an option. However, they recently brought out the Super FMT which does exactly the same as the original one but for over half the price. They acheived this by using cheaper parts and manufacturing processes. Reviews so far suggest it's every bit as good as the original. Now I'm in the middle over wether to buy the domino or FMT. I think the FMT is actually more versatile, but the domino is much quicker to use and you can take the tool to the work as opposed to the work to the tool.

4: Coming to the matter of length, are there many people who can handle 2.5m. lengths (for e.g. M & T's on the ends of bed rails) on their bandsaw?

Good Point

 

[miles_hot]

Look at Steve M's jig for large tennons - work on the long timber flat on your bench and you're away. Worth the 50 notes for the bundle just for that at this rate

Miles

 

[Steve Maskery]

Thank you Miles, saves me having to say it!

Cutting tenons vertically, with whatever jig/machine always has the restriction of height. Either working height above the floor (for jigs like the Rat, Leigh, or my own vertical router tenon jig) or ceiling height (for any table saw tenon jig, such as the Delta or even the best in the world, The Ultimate Tablesw Tenon Jig). It is one reason why I got rid of my Leigh jig, I didn't like having to stand on a box and work half way up the wall (plus it was a pain to set up. Results were perfect, though, provided I didn't cock up, which was, sadly, all too easy to do).

For long lengths, cutting the tenons horizontally is a much safer, more convenient and generally easier option.

If you have a bandsaw, invest in a top quality rip blade. I've just installed one of Ian John's TuffCut blades and it is the best rip blade I've ever used. With my fine adjust rip fence I can take off 0.5mm without the blade being deflected, something my previous blade wouldn't do, even when brand new. With just a spacer for tenon width (don't forget to take the kerf into account) you will have perfect tenons in no time at all, without buying any jig whatsoever and having nothing taking up valuable workshop space.

If you don't have a BS, then do as Miles suggests and make my Large Tenon Jig. It's not fast, but it is accurate and enables me to cut large tenons - very large if necessary -with a normal router. It'll take you an hour to make.

BTW The 5" x 1/2" limit quoted for the Leigh will be the size of the tenon, not the stock. 5" wide, 1/2" thick, and as long as the cutter you use. It means you can't make a 5/8 tenon with it.

HTH
Steve
PS I wonder if I shall make 4K posts today?

 

[Mreagleeyes]

Thank you Miles, saves me having to say it!

Cutting tenons vertically, with whatever jig/machine always has the restriction of height. Either working height above the floor (for jigs like the Rat, Leigh, or my own vertical router tenon jig) or ceiling height (for any table saw tenon jig, such as the Delta or even the best in the world, The Ultimate Tablesw Tenon Jig). It is one reason why I got rid of my Leigh jig, I didn't like having to stand on a box and work half way up the wall (plus it was a pain to set up. Results were perfect, though, provided I didn't cock up, which was, sadly, all too easy to do).

For long lengths, cutting the tenons horizontally is a much safer, more convenient and generally easier option.

If you have a bandsaw, invest in a top quality rip blade. I've just installed one of Ian John's TuffCut blades and it is the best rip blade I've ever used. With my fine adjust rip fence I can take off 0.5mm without the blade being deflected, something my previous blade wouldn't do, even when brand new. With just a spacer for tenon width (don't forget to take the kerf into account) you will have perfect tenons in no time at all, without buying any jig whatsoever and having nothing taking up valuable workshop space.

If you don't have a BS, then do as Miles suggests and make my Large Tenon Jig. It's not fast, but it is accurate and enables me to cut large tenons - very large if necessary -with a normal router. It'll take you an hour to make.

BTW The 5" x 1/2" limit quoted for the Leigh will be the size of the tenon, not the stock. 5" wide, 1/2" thick, and as long as the cutter you use. It means you can't make a 5/8 tenon with it.

HTH
Steve
PS I wonder if I shall make 4K posts today?

So how do I find your Large Tenon Jig?.
I have to put a 5 degree tenon on the joint so it won't be making standard 9o degree joints. This is why I thought I could get the big floor standing machine.
I do have plans in the future to start creating large outdoor furniture but as always my budget is limited.
I don't have a bandsaw, Yet!!. I'm still trying to work out what machine I should buy first, a bandsaw, a planner/thicknesser, a morticer, an extraction system. I was set on getting the Hammer N4400 bandsaw then thought that for my immediate needs a morticer would be better.
I could of course stop relying on machines and get the tenons and mortice's cut by hand.

You'll definitely make 4000 posts today.

 

[Steve Maskery]

My large tenon jig is on Workshop Essentials 1. Click the bandasw link inmy fotter and scroll down.

When you say you want the tenon at 5 deg, do you mean splayed at 5 deg (like the rail of a dining chair) or do you mean the joint has a 5 deg shoulder but is still in line?

If the former, there is no easy way to do that on a large tenon, but the bandsaw is your best bet. There is a suitable jig in Jim Miller's book on chair-making, IIRC. If the workpiece is not too big then I'd do it on my tablesaw using my Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig. It depends what technology you have in your workshop, I guess.

If the latter, the UTTJ for small - medium sized stock, or flat on the bench using the Large Tenon Jig. This joint is more difficult to do on the bandsaw.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Mreagleeyes]

My large tenon jig is on Workshop Essentials 1. Click the bandasw link inmy fotter and scroll down.

When you say you want the tenon at 5 deg, do you mean splayed at 5 deg (like the rail of a dining chair) or do you mean the joint has a 5 deg shoulder but is still in line?

If the former, there is no easy way to do that on a large tenon, but the bandsaw is your best bet. There is a suitable jig in Jim Miller's book on chair-making, IIRC. If the workpiece is not too big then I'd do it on my tablesaw using my Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig. It depends what technology you have in your workshop, I guess.

If the latter, the UTTJ for small - medium sized stock, or flat on the bench using the Large Tenon Jig. This joint is more difficult to do on the bandsaw.

Cheers
Steve

This is the type of joint. Though on the Daybed piece it will be the opposite way round.

Found your DVDs, I always knew that a Band saw had a lot more options, will have a look in detail later and will get in touch.

 

[RogerS]

Mortices for doors and windows ? Dedicated morticing machine - no contest.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Right, for that, mortising machine for the mortices.

For the tenons, the UTTJ would be my choice. Especially as it's chunky, the max 1/2" of the Leigh is going to a bit limiting. One of the advantages of the UTTJ is that twin M&Ts are as straightforward as standard ones. Very strong, look terrific.

The only problem would be if the rails are so long that upright on a tablesaw become unwieldy. But otherwise, easy peasy.


S

 

[Chris J]

UTTJ ??

 

[wizer]

Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig

 

[eoinsgaff]

Just another note on the Leigh! If you are looking to make through Tenons won't you be stuck with rounded M+T's. This is probably the same with any router contraption for M+T's - the Wood Rat etc.

I know this is not generally a problem but the rounded tenon general looks manufactured rather than hand done - at least to this untrained eye.

Eoin

 

[Mike.C]

Tony Spear wrote:

3: Allowing for all the optional guides the total cost of the FMT is around £750. Is anybody going to pay that sort of money for something that will only make mortice & tenon joints?

Yes they are. Just as there is a number of members (Rob :wink: ) drooling over the Festool Domino and looking for any excuse to buy it. And this does not cost much less, cannot do much more, and has got an the ongoing cost of buying loose tenons for the life of the tool.

IMHO the Leigh is worth every penny, and all this (mostly) stems from the quiet remarkable job Adam (I think it was) did when building a complete kitchen using the FMT. (My apiologies if it was not Adam but it was a good few years ago.)

But if you do not want to spend that much Leigh have brought a new model out that at £299 is half the cost

http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/sp-4 ... ryID1=7018

Wether half the cost is half the machine I do not know.

Cheers

Mike

 

[woof]

I have the original FMT - a super jig and with the OF1400.
It is superb for face frames and I intend redoing my kitchen. However it does have its limitations - and these are with long pieces of timber.

I made our dining table with twin tennons - max value I think 1/2 x 2 1/2 ( I can check if you like). Now the long rails underneath were 2M. No way was I going to build a 2M box to stand on - what I did was to build clamp the jig ( you attach it to a piece of thick wood) across the loft hatch. Then you can rout your tenons/mortices happily. It's not ideal but it does work but obviously not ideal from a H&S perspective.
Its a shame I did take WIP pictures but cannot find them.

To show what the FMT is really really good at see this thread that was mentioned earlier...




https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/aragorn-s-kitchen-large-t4091.html?highlight=leigh fmt

Unfortunately the pics are no longer there but it inspired me to fork out for the jig.

 

[Mike.C]

That's the one woof, Aragorn not Adam (well I got the A right and it was back in 2005 ). As you say sadly the photos are no longer there, because it really was an excellent job.

Cheers

Mike

 

[wizer]

Loft Hatch... Fantastic !!! :lol:

 

[woof]

Just another note on the Leigh! If you are looking to make through Tenons won't you be stuck with rounded M+T's. This is probably the same with any router contraption for M+T's - the Wood Rat etc.

Eoin

Indeed yes - but not a problem if you are only doing hidden tenons obviously!

However I do believe there is a way to make square tenons, but I have not yet attempted to do so (I am only a part time hobbit!).

See here for more details ...

http://www.leighjigs.com/data/FMTGuide .pdf

 

[wizer]

That's the one woof, Aragorn

I knew the thread you were talking about and I knew it began with A, but alls I could think of was Argee or Aldel :roll: :wink: