Mitre/Glue up nightmare

[thecoder]

Hi folks

I am in the process of making my first jewelery box and so far have a few questions that spring to mind if I may ?

I have cut my mitres on a tablesaw with a mitre sled I have made,these have not turned out too bad but could be a whole lot better,my issues have been tear out , Im using a dead cheap 10" cut everything type of blade and obviously need a betterblade more suited to fine cutting,so which blade would you guys reccomend for that type of cut ?

Second question is what type of clamps do you use to clamp together when gluing up ? my collection of odds and sods clamps have given me a nightmare this afternoon trying to glue up straight etc. (hammer) (hammer)

I guess its sods law that when I made a "prototype" from scrap it went well and as soon as I get the expensive wood out it went pear shaped

Oh and one other thing, my bandsaw will not be big enough to part the lid so would I be able to do that on my table saw with a good blade ? I also have a straight cut sled as well hopefuly will help .

Any tips advice would be welcome

regards

Dave

 

[Watsy]

Quite often when I'm putting mitres together, I lay the piece down flat with the mitres touching edge to edge and put masking tape across the two pieces. Then I flip it over so that the V is exposed and run some glue along the joint. I then fold it together and the masking tape stops it from moving about too much. Not sure if that's difficult too imagine but if it is I can knock a sketch up in MS Paint to try and help.

 

[paultnl]

If the box is not too big, elastic bands make great clamps.

 

[jasonB]

I use the masking tape method as well, stretch the tape as you apply it then when flipped over and the box assembled it will pull the joints tight.

You could also put a sacrificial bit of MDF under the wood when cutting to stop tear out, but blade still needs top be sharp.

J

 

[Racers]

Hi, Dave

Mitres are the trickiest joints I find you need to have the angle exactly right, the lengths of the opposite sides exactly the same, then things can slip when you glue up, I use any thing else where I can.

You can cut your box apart on the table saw, not safely, if its only small use a hand saw.


Pete

 

[RogerP]

You really need to plane (shoot) the mitres after cutting on the saw, I'd not hope for a really good fit without doing so.

Here is a mitre shooting board you could make up. Believe me it will make all the difference. For glueing up the masking tape method outlined above works well for me.

 

[thecoder]

You really need to plane (shoot) the mitres after cutting on the saw, I'd not hope for a really good fit without doing so.

Here is a mitre shooting board you could make up. Believe me it will make all the difference. For glueing up the masking tape method outlined above works well for me.

Thanks Roger/Everyone, I think I may have been over thinking the situation because I use the masking tape method to dry fit the joints and then to glue up. BUT I also applied clamps to the pieces which kind of got awkward given that I thought the pressure exerted with just tape would not be enough...So I guess what im hearing is that there would be no need to use clamps if I had already used tape or elastic bands,am I reading that right guys ?

What are everyones thoughts on a reccomended blade ? To be fair I was quite shocked the mitres it gave me on the prototype to be hones they were tight on the inside and out...Must just have been beginners luck.

thanks for the help folks

 

[RogerP]

If the mitres are clean and well fitting tape will be all you need

 

[Digit]

When cutting on the TS either make certain that the timber is oversize so that you can then remove the break out, or cut with a sacrficial backing strip.
For assembly I made a 'box', two deep sides and a ply base, that way I assemble one corner to make an 'L' shape, then glue up the second 'L' then final assembly.
Wiith a decent blade the two halves can indeed be separated on the TS.

Roy.

 

[thecoder]

You really need to plane (shoot) the mitres after cutting on the saw, I'd not hope for a really good fit without doing so.

Here is a mitre shooting board you could make up. Believe me it will make all the difference. For glueing up the masking tape method outlined above works well for me.

Would my N0 4 plane be suitable for work with a shooting board ?


regards
Dave

 

[Travis]

I use the same method that Roy uses. Works for me

Travis

 

[Jacob]

A full mitre is difficult. It's usual to cheat with the bottom joint shown here, which is much easier to make and to clamp:

Basically it's two rebates with the meeting edges mitred. You tell everybody it's a secret mitred dovetail. They'll never know unless it comes unstuck!

 

[thecoder]

A full mitre is difficult. It's usual to cheat with the bottom joint shown here, which is much easier to make and to clamp:

Basically it's two rebates with the meeting edges mitred. You tell everybody it's a secret mitred dovetail. They'll never know unless it comes unstuck!

Thats quite clever

Cheers

 

[thecoder]

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this guys teqnique for closing the last joint....might be worth skipping to the back end of the video for you experienced blokes its about the 5 minute mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m4jEiekLKY

 

[RogerP]

You really need to plane (shoot) the mitres after cutting on the saw, I'd not hope for a really good fit without doing so.
Here is a mitre shooting board you could make up. Believe me it will make all the difference. For glueing up the masking tape method outlined above works well for me.

Would my N0 4 plane be suitable for work with a shooting board ?

regards
Dave

Yes it will do fine.

 

[baldpate]

A full mitre is difficult. It's usual to cheat with the bottom joint shown here, which is much easier to make and to clamp:

Basically it's two rebates with the meeting edges mitred. You tell everybody it's a secret mitred dovetail. They'll never know unless it comes unstuck!

Exactly how does one make that joint, Jacob? It sure doesn't look easier than a mitre, so I assume there is a particular technique. Does it require any special tools/cutters?

 

[Digit]

For accuracy a 45 degree router cutter and a router table take some beating.

Roy.

 

[Mike Wingate]

Here is a photo of how I clamp boxes. I got this from MLCS, but Tilgear sell them. I cut the mitres either on a Nobex frame saw, or the Eumenia RAS. Shoot them, now with a No.5 1/2 planefor mitres, then glue up.These finger joints were cut with a router and Incra jig. The base is mitred.

 

[Jacob]

......Exactly how does one make that joint, Jacob? It sure doesn't look easier than a mitre, so I assume there is a particular technique. Does it require any special tools/cutters?

Two rebates, then trim the mitres by hand, or over a TS, or on a router table with a 45º cutter. Whatever turns you on!
If you did the top mitre (in the drawing) with a TS at 45º it could cut into the face of the rebate a touch as this will be covered.

 

[andy king]

......Exactly how does one make that joint, Jacob? It sure doesn't look easier than a mitre, so I assume there is a particular technique. Does it require any special tools/cutters?

Two rebates, then trim the mitres by hand, or over a TS, or on a router table with a 45º cutter. Whatever turns you on!
If you did the top mitre (in the drawing) with a TS at 45º it could cut into the face of the rebate a touch as this will be covered.

I wouldn't say this is an easier or easy joint IMHO.
The vertical component is easy enough, but what shows as the horizontal member in the sketch will need a plane with a side opening such as a rebate or shoulder to get the mitre and the intersection with the rebate crisp, and the need for accuracy is still there if you want a clean, tight joint on the mitre itself.
As was pointed out by Pete Maddex, the need for accurate mitres as well as smack on identical opposing components are what it's all about. Cutting the mitre itself isn't a problem as such, but getting the length smack on can be - it only needs a fraction of a millimetre to put the joints out. It's normally on a set of mitres to make up a frame or box where you will pick up on an error, no matter how small.
A mitre shooting board should give you the opportunity to get both length and angle accurate, so as long as you can make the board accurate in itself, you only need basic tools, a mitre square, saw and plane to make the joint.
I find gluing up easier using either a band clamp or taped and wrapped as mentioned earlier.
Cutting the lid - I'm no fan of any cut on a tablesaw with the guard off, which is what would be required for that side of things.
As it's a small box, I assume the components aren't overly thick so i'd gauge a line and part it with a tenon saw and clean the cut with a blockplane - again as pointed out by Pete Maddex.

HTH,
Andy