Marples plane dating?

[Phil1975]

I think the hand plane bug is beginning to bite...

I initially bought a few old planes of various makes off eBay & learned to clean, sharpen & use them.

Of all the planes I have I feel the Marples planes are that little bit nicer to use.

Most of these are red, but I have one number 4 that has a black body, which looks original to me. Is there any way of dating Marples planes by their colour, small changes to parts etc?
A search doesn't throw up any specific answers.

 

[Mr_P]

"Think "it was the 1930's when the Stanley Bailey patents expired and every man and his dog started making their own versions including Marples, Mathieson, Spiers and most succesfully Record in the UK.

I've got a few I.Sorby's who were owned by Marples at the time.

Later model I.Sorby with numbers and the cheaper frog design (not mine)

These are mine, no numbers on any of the Sorby's
A nice group shot of my I.Sorby 4,5,6 and Record 05 1/2 (I didn't paint it).

Everyone says only in Red but I'm not convinced.


AndyT very kindly scanned the 1938 Marples catalogue here
http://toolemera.com/Trade%20Catalogs/t ... gs193.html

 

[AndyT]

As Mr P has said, a full range of iron bench planes make their first appearance in the 1938 Marples catalogue - if you look back ten years to the 1928 issue, the only metal planes then were a couple of iron block planes.

The 1930s was not a good time to innovate in toolmaking. The second world war meant that many Sheffield manufacturers switched to armament production, and even for those still making tools, steel would soon have been in short supply. So, as a generalisation, tool making slowed down or stopped for the duration.

After the war, it took a long time for production to pick up again, what with war damage and the loss of many skilled workers. So by the time things were 'back to normal' much of the market for hand tools had disappeared, ready for small electric motors to become widely available and change everything again.

That's one reason why Marples planes are relatively rare, though they did at least continue to make them. I have a 1960 Woodworker magazine which features a supplement listing all the planes generally available then, with prices, and Marples are there alongside Stanley, Record and Woden. Marples bench planes were the M3, M4, M4½, X4, M5, M5½, M6 and M7 with several of them also available with a corrugated sole. (Of course, the pictures are not in colour, so there is no help there.)

Another factor to bear in mind is that almost everything branded as Marples could also be had branded as Sorby - same tools, same price. (A bit like Bosch/Siemens/Neff for white goods.)

I don't know of any published studies that will help you, but it's very likely that there will be relevant information in the Hawley Collection - catalogues, accounts and mint samples of tools in their original boxes. It's a huge resource with a handful of dedicated volunteers looking after it. I'm sure they would be welcome you if you wanted to make a study - but you'd have to go to Sheffield to do it.

 

[Phil1975]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. There is some great information there, particularly the catalogue & the tip on the Hawley Collection, which I have never heard of!

It looks like most of the metal Marples planes were made between the 30's & the 60's. The fact that some have black bodies whilst others are red seems to be a mystery!

Having looked more closely there seem to be a few differences. The body of the black plane has no numbers, the red has M 4.
The frogs are almost identical apart from the lateral adjuster, which is cranked on the black frog & straight on the red frog. Also the little cutout in the bottom 'slot' has moved to the opposite side.

I'm intrigued to find out which is the earlier plane now!

 

[Mr_P]

Ok time for another of Mr crack Pots theories. Usually fall apart within minutes.

This applies to both Sorby's and Marples and based on observation on ebay and ones I own.

Mark 1.
Black with no numbers and a solid frog

Mark 2 as above but Red, maybe as a result of the success of the Blue Records and trying to be different from the black stanleys.

Mark 3
Red with numbers and a solid frog

Mark 4
Red with numbers and the modern cheaper frog.

When I say numbers I really mean number and a letter S4, M5 unless of course its a M 4 1/2 or S 5 1/2 and then I mean numbers and a letter.