Marking knife

[Kernow]

Hello all

Could anyone give me some advice on buying a good dovetail marking knife? I've been looking & there is too many to choose from. Also I'm looking for a 50mm engineers square, are the faithfull ones ok?

Thanks George

 

[adidat]

i use a similar one to the 500200 in the picture below, its fantastic very skinny blade and holds an excellent edge.

adidat

 

[mtr1]

I use this one, and find it quite good. Didn't buy it cos it was Japanese, but for the shape on the end for marking, and it can be spun fast. Replaces one I made, that got broken. Don't know about faithfull tools, check its square before buying.

 

[Jacob]

£3.75 from Toolpost

Cheap but will need sharpening. NB dovetails you only need to cut the shoulder lines. Everything else with pencil, or freehand with a saw.
PS except marking the pin ends from the holes - where a chisel shaped craft knife is easiest i.e. you don't draw a cut line you just poke it in carefully.
This sort of thing http://www.xacto.com/Product/X218

 

[Kernow]

I use this one, and find it quite good. Didn't buy it cos it was Japanese, but for the shape on the end for marking, and it can be spun fast. Replaces one I made, that got broken. Don't know about faithfull tools, check its square before buying.

Thats the knife I was warming to. Will look at the Kirschen ones also.

 

[mtr1]

Can't say I've had much luck with a pencil, how do you get it between fine dovetails Jacob?

psed quick there jacob.

 

[Jacob]

Can't say I've had much luck with a pencil, how do you get it between fine dovetails Jacob?

psed quick there jacob.

Psed again! http://www.xacto.com/Product/X218
Craft knife is thinner than a DT saw blade so slips in easily. I spent a lot of time working out how to do it and this was easiest and most reliable for me.

 

[mtr1]

Don't think thats a bad idea, if you have clamped the tail board down. Never done it myself, but can see the logic, might be quicker too, and on the 180 dovetails I'm doing at the moment it might of been a good option. I've got tons more to do, so might give the chisel idea a go.

 

[Jacob]

I think it works OK. You just tap it in like a chisel with flat side against the side of the pin hole. The trouble with a knife is that you have to draw it across and it can go off line, or slice the side of the tail.
So it's score the shoulder lines deep with any old knife or chisel corner, cut the pinholes to a pencil line or freehand, mark through the pins with a craft knife chisel, saw the pin sides. All saw cuts just very slightly over-cut so you don't have a problem cleaning out the corners.

 

[Jacob]

Another PS. In the absence of a craft knife as above an awl is a better option than a knife, as it won't slice the sides.
All in all you don't need any special knives for DTs.

 

[bugbear]

Hello all

Could anyone give me some advice on buying a good dovetail marking knife? I've been looking & there is too many to choose from. Also I'm looking for a 50mm engineers square, are the faithfull ones ok?

Thanks George

A Stanley knife (the old #199 fixed blade) has always served me well enough.

Some of the modern specialist knives are very beautiful though.

You still have to learn by trial and error where to place your saw relative to the mark you've made to get DT's that fit nicely.

BugBear

 

[Fromey]

I use this one, and find it quite good. Didn't buy it cos it was Japanese, but for the shape on the end for marking, and it can be spun fast. Replaces one I made, that got broken. Don't know about faithfull tools, check its square before buying.

Thats the knife I was warming to. Will look at the Kirschen ones also.

Kernow, if you want a left-handed knife, I have one to spare and will gladly post it to you.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

The kiridashi knife is not a good choice for dovetails, unless you want them fat. It is too wide to get into a saw kerf, which is what you aim for with skinny types.

Actually you do not need a knife (this coming from a guy that makes marking knives)! ...................

1. Saw the tails ... but leave the waste intact.

2. Place the tails on the pin board, then use the saw blade in the kerf to transfer marks ...

Reference: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... rawer.html

The best marking knives for dovetails have a blade that can get into the saw kerf. I use HSS jigsaw blades ....

You can make your own .... http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... tails.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Eric The Viking]

I'm a leftie, and thus the blade on mine looks like Derek's above. Sadly it came from Rutlands (rather than home made), although it holds a good edge and is just what I need. It's a bit thicker than Derek's too - jigsaw blades sound like a good idea.

E.

 

[matthewwh]

The trouble with a knife is that you have to draw it across and it can go off line, or slice the side of the tail.

That's why the Ashley Iles ones have a curved edge, so they can be rolled through smaller cuts or drawn across a surface. I always find that straight edged ones tend to go blunt quickly at the tip because that's the bit that ends up doing all the work.

You can do the same with a Swann Moreton scalpel and a Number 10 or 21 blade.

 

[Fromey]

Yay! An finally the Ashley Iles knives are back in stock. I'll be sending my order later today.

 

[Philipp]

That's why the Ashley Iles ones have a curved edge, so they can be rolled through smaller cuts or drawn across a surface. I always find that straight edged ones tend to go blunt quickly at the tip because that's the bit that ends up doing all the work.

I am completely with Matthew, the curved blades of the AI marking knives are ideal, straight edged blades are rather senseless, since you only use the tips of them.
I got my AI marking knives from Matthew and do not regret the - modest - money spent. Use them every day in the work shop.

Another marking knive I like is the reasonably priced Utilitas-dings from Lee Valley.

 

[bugbear]

I note the comment from someone being left handed; it doesn't matter, since everybody needs to mark both the LH and RH of the DT.

For this reason a thick single bevelled blade is no use (e.g. Kiradashi), since the line would be offset by the blade thickness for one of the cuts.

Solutions include:

* a thin blade, so that the blade thickness doesn't matter
* a double edged knife (either spear point, or double ended)
* Scandinavian grind so that both faces are flat and meet at the edge.

Kirby uses a small Swiss army knife, which has the same curved edge as the Iles knife, and also has a thin blade, and also borders on the Scandy grind. Oughta' work OK

A beautiful knife is obviously not needed, but objecting to beauty would be churlish.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

......
Solutions include:

* a thin blade, so that the blade thickness doesn't matter
* a double edged knife (either spear point, or double ended)
* Scandinavian grind so that both faces are flat and meet at the edge........

Not using a knife at all is the simplest solution i.e. either a thin chisel-ended craft "knife", or an awl.
You can still have a rhine-stone studded handle to your awl, if that's what you want, or a fringed buckskin scabbard or sheath!
Here's mine:

 

[Eric The Viking]

For this reason a thick single bevelled blade is no use (e.g. Kiradashi), since the line would be offset by the blade thickness for one of the cuts.

As a leftie, I'm used to tilting the knife so that the bevel plane runs on whatever edge I'm marking against, (but, as pointed out that's no use in dovetails). That said, I like this one. I've deliberately rounded the end slightly, as it holds its edge better, but it's comfortable (important) and sharp. I bought it when it was on offer - £15 is rather steep IMHO.

E.

PS: @Jacob, my 'normal' marking knife is a 45-year-old penknife I bought in the local ironmongers when I was about six or seven (Sheffield steel!). I'd've thought you need sunglasses with that thing - the glare from all that 'bling' would make seeing the blade really hard. Where is the pointy bit, anyway It must be tiny, as it doesn't seem to have one. Don't you feel a bit unpatriotic using an import, too?