Makita Belt Sanders

[J_Ashley]

I’m looking for a belt sander mostly for the purpose of sanding some floorboards, and having done some reading the Makita options seems fairly well respected. However, they offer two models with similar specifications around the same price point, and I am struggling to understand the practical difference.

The 9403 seems to have a plane style knob for handling and weighs a little more, whilst the 9404 drops the weight and power slightly but offers variable speed.

Did one of these supersede the other, but they still offer both? Or do they have a slightly different market?

 

[deema]

I’m not sure if one superseded the other, I had the same conundrum and opted for the 9404. It’s a superb machine, dropped from heights, and has been generally abused over the years and so far it’s withstood everything flawlessly. Spare parts are easy t9 get should anything break....,which I’ve never needed to do....,so far. The cork and carbon pads wear out every now and again but there easy and relatively cheap. The bar / screws that hold the cork and carbon pads on the base also get worn and again easy and cheap to replace. I’ve used 40 grit and really lent it and it just keeps going so plenty of umph.

For a floor I personally would hire the proper floor and edge sander. Or buy one off eBay and then sell it again when finished. The difference in ease of use, speed to get the job done and the reduced risk of creating hollows out weighs IMO the cost.

 

[J_Ashley]

For a floor I personally would hire the proper floor and edge sander. Or buy one off eBay and then sell it again when finished. The difference in ease of use, speed to get the job done and the reduced risk of creating hollows out weighs IMO the cost.

Might not be a bad idea. I think I'd sooner go down the buy and resell route as then I can take my time, whereas hiring can become expensive unless it's all done in a pretty short time period. There seem to be quite a few Hiretech models on eBay and a few Clarkes too.

 

[Trevanion]

I've used both the 9403 and 9404 very extensively and they both have their advantages over the other and they both have their place.

I believe the 9404 is classed as a "Heavy duty machine" and the 9403 is a "Super duty machine" but they are about the same level as far as build quality and durability go.

While the 9403 is rated at 1200w and the 9404 at 1010w, there's not really much difference on the power front, they both are extremely powerful machines capable at whatever you throw at them. You can pretty much put all your weight behind the machines and they will still sand and not bog down too much.

The 9403 is about a kilogram heavier than the 9404 and it is noticeable, it makes it a bit cumbersome for lighter sanding work. But it does have the advantage of the weight when heavy sanding is required. You'd have to be quite physically fit to use a 9403 for extended periods as it does tire you out, It's a very good arm workout. On the 9404 the decreased weight is helpful when sanding more delicate/complex things such as doors and windows as you're less likely to take large gouges out of the workpiece from staying in one spot too long. The variable speed of the 9404 is also helpful when sanding thin objects such as glazing bars in a window as at full speed there wouldn't be much of the bar left after a swipe with the belt sander.

Both collect dust very effectively with the supplied dust bag so I imagine if hooked up to a vacuum there would be very little if any dust in the air when it's being used. I've never tried myself as I find hoses awkward on most things.

A good thing with these machines is that you can track the belt so that it is right on the edge of the sander and you can get right up to a wall or a corner with it easily, very handy.

The 9403 would probably be best suited to your task of sanding floorboards as it is more comfortable when you put your weight behind it when working on the floor. They also hold value very well, if you don't plan on using it after the job lump it on eBay for not much less for what you bought it for so long as you keep it clean.

 

[AJB Temple]

Trevanion nailed it. My experience is similar.

 

[Lons]

I bought an M9400 a couple of months ago for £80 and it's a beast of a machine, heavy but very capable and as it's been around a long time it's fairly well proven.

 

[Doug71]

Used the 9401's for years, super heavy duty, apparently you can actually sit on them and drive around, never did it myself, honest :roll:

I now use the 9403, not quite as heavy but ergonomically better.

Doug

 

[J_Ashley]

I've used both the 9403 and 9404 very extensively and they both have their advantages over the other and they both have their place........

Many thanks for the very detailed comparison between the two - just what I wanted to know.

Although you noted that the differences between the two probably make the heavier 9403 more suitable for floorboards, given they are quite close in performance, I’m wondering whether the 9404 would be the better long term investment. Floorboards are certainly the main consideration and priority project, but eventually there will be other areas of the house to renovate (e.g. doors) and so the extra versatility of the 9404 might make it better in the long run across multiple projects. Although the added versatility is no good if it’s not up to floorboards in the first place.

Referring back to the suggestion of using a specialist upright drum sander, realistically can the 9404 (or 9403) be used to sand whole floors and do a good job? I appreciate it might be less comfortable and slower, but that doesn’t really bother me – my main concern is the ability to achieve a good result.

 

[Doug71]

It all depends on what the floors are and what finish you want to achieve? Are we talking 100yr old 10" wide pine floorboards or some 5yr old engineered oak that just needs freshening up?

 

[Eric The Viking]

I have the smaller 9911, which has been worked pretty hard and so far is going strong.

A few points:

1. Whatever finish is on the boards will clog the belt before you sand past it. Don't consider trying this without DX, it'll just be a waste of belts. You can clean them well with crepe rubber (either a block or an old gym shoe sole), and I find I need to do that frequently if whatever I'm sanding is at all gummy.

2. Extra pressure basically just seems to clog the mahine faster, and doesn't give a better or quicker result. It's worse with the big orbital I have but still true of the belt sander.

3. I've run 40 grit, but the belt is so coarse and stiff, it cut through some of the plastic surrounding the belt! It would probably be better with the bigger machines, but still take care. Makita belts are much better quality than the cheap ones, and I can make them last for ages with DX and cleaning.

4. Yes you can track the belt right to the edge of the machine (it's an easy adjustment), but that has two issues: (a.) you can only sand on one edge and in one direction, so for example, you could do one end of a window board (in the reveal), but not the other, because the handle and cord and DX hose/bag get in the way. It's the same with floor corners - you can run along most of one edge, but you cannot properly get into corners, AND the sander is determining the direction of sanding, not the grain of the wood, so the results may not be nice. (b.) It would be very difficult to set up the machine so the belt sands to the edge, but doesn't project on top. It's easy to catch walls, skirtings, etc. with that bit, which acts like a rough saw. You can do a lot of damage in a second or two before you notice (DAMHIKT). The "loose" edge also makes sander marks a lot more easily, so needs great care in use -- I like the wedge-shaped front handle much more than I would a knob, because I get more feel (I mean I notice if I'm tilting the machine unintentionally).

Allow for about 3/4" or more (and for the length of the sander, plus a bit) that you can't reach in most returning corners - the bigger the rollers the wider this gap will be.

My Makita often gets used on plaster and other horrid jobs. It's reasonably easy to strip and clean , and having seen it dirty, I realise I need to do this a lot to keep it reliable. But it's self-tapping screws into plastic, so sooner or later, strip/clean will become impossible as the screws will no longer hold. I assume the "professional" models you mention have properly tapped screws, so you can get at the airflow channels and round the roller bearings and the motor - you need to (the other reason is that old dust can contaminate other work later). I'd want to know this before spending the extra dosh. I'd buy another one like mine, but I'm not at all sure I'd splash out on the bigger machines without finding out.

So I think I'd hire to do a floor!

Has anyone used a sanding frame, and if so did it help? They're a silly price considering what they are, but I've always wondered...

E.

 

[J_Ashley]

Whatever finish is on the boards will clog the belt before you sand past it. Don't consider trying this without DX, it'll just be a waste of belts.

I’ve got a recent Metabo dust extractor and a cyclone in front of it, so hopefully I should have ample dust extraction. Thanks for all the rest of the detailed operating advice.

Are we talking 100yr old 10" wide pine floorboards or some 5yr old engineered oak that just needs freshening up?

Pretty much the former. 150 year old 6 1/2" pine, although some there's some reclaimed boards and varying widths in random places. A couple of the rooms have been fairly well maintained, and so I'm probably looking at more of a refresh there. In other rooms the floorboards look to have been sitting under carpet for decades, and a achieving a flatter surface and even appearance will be more work.

 

[Doug71]

Careful, you might upset a few here sanding the old boards back because you lose all the character and they just end up looking new.

The problem with belt sanders and old boards is that the sander only sands flat and the old boards will probably be cupped so you need to take a lot off to get a uniform finish.

I have a Festool Rotex sander that works quite well on old boards and beams etc. If you put a soft pad on it can follow the shape of the old wood more so you keep some character.

 

[large red]

I have had a 9401 for 25+ years incredibly heavy duty tool! My only gripe is that it's useless without the silly bit of material screwed onto the bottom (slip plate) and I never have a spare when I need one even if I buy 2 I can't find the spare one when I need it. A £3 spare stops production and it pisses me off!

 

[J_Ashley]

Careful, you might upset a few here sanding the old boards back because you lose all the character and they just end up looking new.

I appreciate that and we are trying to maintain the character, but, in this instance, I think we’ve passed ‘characterful’ and are into neglect in some areas. Upstairs the floorboards previously under the carpet appear to have been ignored for decades – some are broken, ill fitting replacements, some painted etc. I think taking a minimalist approach to the upstairs will leave a very unappealing room. The flooring downstairs looks to have been maintained over the years, and so only light work be necessary. The downstairs flooring also show the potential of what upstairs could be, and then there would also be a visual similarity between floors throughout the house too.

I have a Festool Rotex sander that works quite well on old boards and beams etc. If you put a soft pad on it can follow the shape of the old wood more so you keep some character.

Good point about the cupping. Preserving existing irregularities in shape is fine with me. Is this soft pad an additional accessory (and, if so, is there a Makita equivalent), or a DIY solution to the issue?

 

[Doug71]

This is the Festool, it has a geared mode and random orbit mode. With 40 grit paper in geared mode it will rip through most things, you can also use it as finishing sander in random orbit mode. Think the pad it comes with is actually classed as soft but you can get softer.

https://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-rot ... r-ax481227

Guess this is Makita equivalent but don't know anything about it.

http://www.makitauk.com/products/woodwo ... 150mm.html

 

[Mark A]

Guess this is Makita equivalent but don't know anything about it.

http://www.makitauk.com/products/woodwo ... 150mm.html

I bought one a few months back. It broke within 30 minutes of use but as it was a weekend I took it apart to see whether it would be possible to fix myself, instead of waiting until Monday to arrange a return. The gear which drove the powered orbit mode had snapped half of its teeth, which was disappointing for a supposedly industrial tool.

If this sort of sander is what you're after then buy the Festool Rotex.

 

[user22161]

...........
For a floor I personally would hire the proper floor and edge sander. Or buy one off eBay and then sell it again when finished. The difference in ease of use, speed to get the job done and the reduced risk of creating hollows out weighs IMO the cost.

From the sound of the job I would agree. I have a Makita 9401 which is earlier version of 9403 but, although an excellent tool, wouldn't like to do a full house with it. I had a complete apartment to sort a couple of years ago which had carpets glued to oak block floor for 30 years. After removing rubber and much of the glue with Skarsten scraper, used a 6" ros which was fine on mostly level wood blocks but I doubt would be suitable for uneven/cupped boards over a large area.

 

[J_Ashley]

...........
For a floor I personally would hire the proper floor and edge sander. Or buy one off eBay and then sell it again when finished. The difference in ease of use, speed to get the job done and the reduced risk of creating hollows out weighs IMO the cost.

From the sound of the job I would agree.

Does anybody have any experience of the Hiretech HT7 Edging Sander or/and the HT8 Drum Sander, as I see the majority of hire companies appear to be offering these?

From what I have read the HT8 is essentially a mid seventies design, and a few comments I've read seem to suggest they are perhaps a bit lacklustre. However, these may just be comments by people/professionals used to the latest £3-4k machines, which will undoubtedly be better.