Let me axe you this...

[Jelly]

I recieved this axe in the post at work today, it was bought on ebay because,

• I wanted a medium sized axe which was small enough to use for large joinery tasks, but big enough to use for limbing trees and squaring up logs.
• It's manufactured by J. Tyzack, and I have become rather fond of most of my Tyzack tools (even if most of them were made by Tyzack Sons and Turner, rather than the other two Tyzack family firms)

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It did raise some alarm in the office initially, but my colleagues conceded that it was in fact a very nicely made axe, and indeed one of them called it a thing of beauty; thankfully they're used to odd things arriving in the post for me (engineers scrapers, sawfiles, chemicals for formulating rust remover, Saws, Steel Stock, Parts for machine tools, etc...).

When I got home, I took it back out of its cardboard wrappings to have a proper look:


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But what's that up at the top? Running though the "Steel Head" mark?


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Is it a Crack?


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It seems to extend round all four faces at a uniform depth...


I'm honestly not sure if a bit that cracked off the poll and has been soldered/welded/brazed back on, or if it's an artifact of the process of producing the axe... If the head was cast it could be a parting line from the mould, but I seem to remember, that axes are normally forged, and the more pointed side of the eye (i.e. near the bit) seems to point at it having been forged rather than cast; my other thought is that it could have been forge-welded on as part of the production process to make the production of a poll that tapered out at the end easier.

Opinions?

 

[Wildman]

looks to me like it has broken off and been welded back on badly there is lots of evidence of weld being ground back. I hope you did not pay a lot for it, could be fine as long as you don't hammer the back of it to split logs, it is not a splitting maul.

 

[D_W]

It looks to me like it was welded on and then stamped, judging by the fact that some of the letter stamping spills into the crack. But I can only just say that. (To be clear, I'm supposing it may have come from the factory that way).

Presume that there was a reason that it was done given that later hatchets are just all steel, anyway. It may be a boast to allow a user to hit the poll more times before it mushrooms as it would with wrought. Sort of like the first all steel cap irons on planes are quick to boast about their composition.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

IF that's a crack (and I'm not convinced), it seems to run round the poll above the handle eye. It also looks as if the top of the poll has had a fair bit of punishment in it's time, which may or may not be a factor.

 

[blackrodd]

If that axe was NOT described as cracked, or pictured to show the crack, it's been mis described and I would point
out what could happen if or when the top came off and other people were in the area.
Send it back as not fit for purpose and is in a potentially dangerous condition on delivery!
Regards Rodders

 

[D_W]

I think before you guys jump to conclusions, I would look a lot more closely at the stamp. Notice how the steel joins together closer at the stamp. You know that stamp was done only at the factory and not after.

I would also get an idea of what composition the pool might be by filing lightly on it with a good file, and then filing on the rest of the above the eye. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the steel insert that appears to be forge welded on might be a much harder piece of metal, like spring temper.

I would be glad to have that axe just as it is, I'm convinced it was made that way on purpose.

There is no way the average person could've reattached such a piece to that hatchet, either. It's not welded all the way around with stick, it appears to be a forge weld. If a hack owner blasted the poll off of an axe, they'd have had no facility to get it back on that competently and also align the stamp, either.

Be nice if there was another picture of that axe type somewhere else, but it doesn't appear there is. The stamping and the fact that the stamps push the metal together at the weld make me very suspicious about any idea that the whole thing wasn't made the way it's shown there.

 

[Jelly]

IF that's a crack (and I'm not convinced), it seems to run round the poll above the handle eye. It also looks as if the top of the poll has had a fair bit of punishment in it's time, which may or may not be a factor.

Yeah, it's just too uniform to my mind, nor does it make sense why you'd weld it* or how you'd do it without marring/obliterating the "steel head" stamp

*Given there's a good half an inch of undamaged "meat" between the possible crack and the eye, I'd probably have just ground it flat and continued using it.

If that axe was NOT described as cracked, or pictured to show the crack, it's been mis described...
Send it back as not fit for purpose and is in a potentially dangerous condition on delivery!

Rodd, I can see where you're coming from with this, as it wasn't described as cracked, but at the price I paid I'm fairly unconcerned about going back to the seller and I certainly won't be returning it.

Having had a good look at it and a brief swing of it, there doesn't seem like there's any danger of the head separating from the heft, possibly the little bit of the poll which may or may not be cracked could separate if struck, but as it's a hewing/limbing/hedging axe, I can see no reason to strike the poll, ever.

I of course have to accept that judgment call carries a certain risk of me being entirely wrong, and getting an abrupt lesson in the form of flying steel fragments.


Mainly I'm curious about it rather than worried, as it seems like an unnecessary and cleverly executed repair, or a fairly odd manufacturing technique to begin with; Perhaps I should see if there are any J. Tyzack catalogues or actual examples of this typle in the Hawley collection to consult with. After all if any living person can confirm or deny D_W's theory (which makes a lot of sense to me) it's probably Ken Hawley.

It probably wouldn't do too much harm to tidy up all the mushrooming on the poll with a file as I'm planning on using it with my thumb sitting just against the poll for more controlled paring and tennon splitting tasks, this in itself may give me some clues, (especially if i polish up a little patch either side and have a look at the grain with a hand-lens), though I'm wary of taking away the uniqueness of the tool just to try and learn how it was made by doing that..

 

[Dovetaildave]

Looking at it as a whole, would the other marks indicate its possibly forged?

PS now I can "axcess" (sorry :lol: ) the other views to check it out my proposition.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I think you'd need an expert on axe forging to be certain, but I would agree with D_W on this, it looks to have been made like that. If you search "Kent pattern axe" on ebay and look closely at the nice examples from Gilpin or Cornelius Whitehouse for example, many have a dotted line or mark around that point that makes me wonder if a harder steel face has not been welded onto the poll during forging. It is unlikely that the stamp mark could be made other than during forging.

And if it were a crack all way round, it is hard to see how it would happen, and it would most likely have fallen off by now !

 

[bugbear]

Several catalogue entries for axes say "all steel" or "solid steel", presumably in contradistinction from inserted edge types.

I think the mark on your axe "Steel Head" is a variation on this.

Even if the head is solid steel, I wouldn't expect it to be of uniform hardness, since skilled tempering techniques were used (similar to hammers) to make the working surface hard (edge of axe, face of hammer) while leaving the bulk tough.

I can't tell you the exact period of those catalogues from memory, I'm afraid.

BugBear

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Just had a check, and it seems Kent pattern axes were traditionally forged not by drifting an eye through a solid piece of bar, but by folding a smaller steel bar around a mandrel and forge welding. If you're lucky a better steel bit would be forge welded between the two cheeks to make a finer cutting edge. My guess is that in this case a harder poll was also welded onto the back of the folded piece for use as a hammer.

 

[Jelly]

I've finally had chance to use the axe in anger, I tidied the edge of the bit up with a flapwheel and polished it to a mirror sheen on a cloth wheel, probably left it sharper than strictly necessary... But boy am I glad I did!

I started by taking the meat of the waste out of some 4" Dovetail half-lap joints before cleaning out with a router plane; I was pleasantly surprised that it left a smooth glossy finish in the endgrain more akin to a good paring chisel or a shooting board.
Next up was taking the worst of the wind out of more riven oak before running it over the P/T, good clean cuts, easy to control even with a low grip on the handle putting a lot of force through to hog off big chunks.

It's Axe-llent! (Don't worry I'll get my coat).

 

[AJB Temple]

My money is on what Sheffield Tony said. My brother has an axe very similar to this (but in rougher condition). He has always said it is folded steel.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I started by taking the meat of the waste out of some 4" Dovetail half-lap joints before cleaning out with a router plane

WIP please ! A job requiring 4" dovetails partly cut by axe sounds too interesting to miss !

 

[Jelly]

I started by taking the meat of the waste out of some 4" Dovetail half-lap joints before cleaning out with a router plane

WIP please ! A job requiring 4" dovetails partly cut by axe sounds too interesting to miss !

Unfortunately I've finished it and given it away now, however I'll likely do another for myself and will do a WIP then.

Nothing exciting just a saw vice, had to make a really solid joint between the Jaws and Legs, so how better than a MEGADOVETAIL!™.

 

[Racers]

+1 for using an axe they can do surprisingly delicate work, I started shaping the outside of this lid with an axe.

Ripple ash bog oak and brown oak box by Pete Maddex, on Flickr


Pete

 

[Billy Flitch]

Strange world I was watching a video on you tube about the making of axes come and visit the site and this thread has been revived. To answer the original question I don't think this is a crack as in the video you will see the axe head being made from three pieces of steel. Another thing To watch for is the way the Blacksmith controls the trip hammer there is a ring around the hammer and how deep the Blacksmith presses the bar with his foot dictaits the speed at which the hammer falls.

Going back to when I was a boy of 15 in the ship yard in the north of England I spent my lunch break at the friend of a friends forge in the Blacksmiths shop and as I stood up to go and stepped backwards on what I thought was a pipe, the pipe went down to the ground and this huge trip hammer came down behind me rapid and loud with what seemed like the speed of a machine gun. I jumped so high that i think I could of touched the roof the fright that I received stays with me till this day.

Any way enjoy the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr4VTCwEfko

 

[heimlaga]

Yep that type of poll was usually forge welded in place.

Most old axes are folded and forge welded. A drifted eye in wrought iron wasn't strong enough.