Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging

[selectortone]

Yes I know they existed but there really were no cars on our street when ar worra lad - nobody owned one and there were non parked, except when dropping off etc.

Ah, OK. Sorry, misunderstood.

 

[Jacob]

I don't think it is always a case of not accepting the scale of the problem but more a case of realism in that a problem can only be solved by some form of action. The climate / enviromental issues are getting worse and will not just go away but it needs global action to resolve and whilst a lot of people are happy to acknowledge the problems and talk about them till the cows come home there seems little in the way of action except a lot of nit picking here and there that is not going to change anything.

I think the biggest reason for this lack of action is that the people in power know that to make a change will require both a global collective response and a massive social upheaval that will impact how we live and what we do in the UK, they have seen the response from the people during the Covid lockdown and cannot see a way forward. This has resulted in coming up with daft ideas like going carbon neutral that will have no global impact at all if we go it alone, but it will cause the UK other issues with the economy and cost of living.

Arguments for doing nothing are not useful and miss the point completely.

 

[HappyHacker]

We already have a road usage charge per mile. It is the approx 300% tax on fuel. The more you drive the more you pay, drive a gas guzzler and the more you pay. I have not looked recently but the various vehicle fuel taxes were raising around £30 billion per year.

I worked in London in the 90's and one of my colleagues used to cycle to work. He developed breathing problems and his doctor said it was the pollution he was breathing while cycling. He stoped cycling to work and his breathing problems disappeared, he did put on a lot of weight though.

 

[flying haggis]

I bet s khant is peeved he couldn't include the M25 completely in his plan...........

 

[Yorkieguy]

You’re genuinely ridiculous. Or stupid. If you’re stupid I apologise for calling you ridiculous.

There is nothing wrong with a lot of child labour. It’s the only way families get by in the third world you silly person.

This is not normal child labour. It’s gang enforced slave labour in conditions from 1000 years ago. It’s barbaric.

How many 100’s of people do you think die a day in Congolese cobalt mines, compared to your silly bs statistics about U.K. air pollution?

Get real you drip.

Quite disgraceful.

It is possible to disagree with someone else's point if view without being disagreeable. You are engaging in ad hominem attacks on people with whom you disagree, making subjective and offensive comments about their lifestyle or what newspapers they read. This is a moderated forum where people are expected to behave respectfully to each other. It is not a 'rumpus room', an 'echo chamber' or 'snake pit' where people can behave in a sociopathic way. The level of moderation on here is more relaxed than on many forums, and in most other moderated forums you'd have been gone by now.

There is a minimum standard of behaviour which is expected in this public forum, and unless you are prepared to rise above that, desist from personal attacks and rely upon the force of your arguments rather than the force with which they are put, I think your time on this forum will be rather short-lived.

If you see this as yet another opportunity to metaphorically 'chuck your weight about', I'm inured to clickbait trolling.

Just saying.

 

[Adam W.]

I bet s khant is peeved he couldn't include the M25 completely in his plan...........

Give it time.

 

[Fitzroy]

Plenty eco destruction, like the 10km dead zones around oil rigs.

Interested in your source for this?

 

[naughtymoose]

I don't think it is always a case of not accepting the scale of the problem but more a case of realism in that a problem can only be solved by some form of action.

Absolutely.

Problems with oppression and exploitation, have been addressed in the past by people standing up to the powers-that-be and being counted.

So, let's just stop gabbing on about it. It's completely pointless and it's getting us nowhere!

 

[Tom K]

I drove 3 miles round the North Circular back in 2016 in my privately registered (PLG) Hilux pickup. I didn't realise that it wasn't compliant (if it had been a Hilux Surf estate with the same engine there wouldn't have been a problem) and received a fine for £500, reduced to £250 if paid within 14 days. The real issue was that I didn't receive any notification until 73 days after I'd travelled, so, if I'd been travelling that route every day, I could have been fined £35,000 without even knowing I was breaking the rules. There's no information on my vehicle's paperwork telling me that it's non-compliant and I have to go online to find out whether or not it is. I wrote a letter begging for forgiveness but it fell on deaf ears and the reply told me that ULEZ had been publicised back in 2008 so I should have known. With such big fines there should be some system which flashes up a warning when a vehicle is non-compliant. It would be easy and cheap to install as they already have number plate recognition. There's no way I would have gone round the N circular if I'd been aware. I even wrote a little song to Sadiq Khan about it but that didn't even merit a response. I too believe it's a scam. They want to collect as much cash as possible and are doing so under the pretext of keeping London clean.

That’s odd because the charges don’t apply to the North Circular only the area inside it?

 

[Jacob]

“The evidence from this landmark report is clear – the ULEZ works. This is beyond dispute. It has already reduced toxic air pollution by almost half in central London and by over a fifth in inner London, transforming the quality of air for four million Londoners.10 Feb 2023"

https://www.london.gov.uk/new-repor...this landmark,air for four million Londoners.
https://archwaylondon.com/zen/key-facts-about-air-pollution

 

[Fordgate1]

We have obviously got to cut down on noxious emissions from motor vehicles. I'm very concerned that papers like the Daily Mail are not concerned about the impact of these exhaust fumes on our health.

 

[Spectric]

Arguments for doing nothing are not useful and miss the point completely.

It is not an argument for doing nothing but what can the people at our level on a little island like the UK actually do when we are not a major contributor to the problem anymore although we were when we had the industrial revolution. Even our leaders are really powerless on the worlds stage, others may acknowledge them but take little notice as we are in the grand scheme of things insignificant when faced with the continous rise of the east.

 

[Fitzroy]

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/

I love stories like this as you can access them with maths. If I reverse engineer the article
50000 horses
35lb manure per day
manure density 60lb/ft3
10.64 million ft3/yr of maunure
convert to metric
.30 million m3 per year
15million m3 in 50yrs
at 9ft deep or 2.7m this is a road area of 5.58km2
average road width 5m equates to 1116km of road
50,000 horse on 1116km of road is 45 horses per km or 1 horse ever 22m which seems reasonable.

 

[Jacob]

It is not an argument for doing nothing but what can the people at our level on a little island like the UK actually do when we are not a major contributor to the problem anymore although we were when we had the industrial revolution. Even our leaders are really powerless on the worlds stage, others may acknowledge them but take little notice as we are in the grand scheme of things insignificant when faced with the continous rise of the east.

Another argument for doing nothing!
China is making massive advances in green energy tech. Are you happy to leave it all to them? Should we just sit back until overtaken by events?
https://www.iea.org/commentaries/a-new-era-of-shared-clean-energy-leadership-begins-in-chinahttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...70bn-a-year-in-renewable-energy-report-claims

 

[paulrbarnard]

I love stories like this as you can access them with maths. If I reverse engineer the article
50000 horses
35lb manure per day
manure density 60lb/ft3
10.64 million ft3/yr of maunure
convert to metric
.30 million m3 per year
15million m3 in 50yrs
at 9ft deep or 2.7m this is a road area of 5.58km2
average road width 5m equates to 1116km of road
50,000 horse on 1116km of road is 45 horses per km or 1 horse ever 22m which seems reasonable.

I read an article on horses in London and the manure was only a part of the challenge. The logistics of feeding then was one of the main tasks of the ubiquitous London sailing barge. That’s another interesting maths problem when to consider the acreage of land needed for the hay.

 

[BruceK]

It's working though. No pretext needed, London has falling levels of air pollution. Good thing too!

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favour of cleaner air. I just think there should be a fairer system of enforcing it. How can people who don't know they're doing wrong take evasive action.? Perhaps a 'first instance' warning might be more appropriate rather than a hefty fine. A few years ago we were all encouraged to buy diesel vehicles and now those who have them are almost considered to be evil. I think the same will happen with electric vehicles. I don't think they are the squeaky clean answer that we're led to believe.

A song for Mr Khan (To the tune of ‘Oh Mr Porter’)



Dear Mr Khan, oh what shall I do?

I drove along the 406 and now I’m in a stew,

I’ve had a nasty letter, £500 in fine

Reduced down to 250 if I pay in two weeks’ time.



Oh Mr Khan I hadn’t got a clue, that

For my Toyota Hilux an emission charge was due,

It just had an MOT and emission tests were fine.

So when I went to London I just drove right past the sign.



It was early in the morning, the sign’s for all to see,

But till the penalty charge arrived didn’t know it applied to me.

If mine had been a Hilux Surf I’d have much better luck,

But though the engine’s just the same I drive a pickup truck.



On the registration docs it’s shown as ‘PLG’,

The same as a guzzling Range Rover or a Citroen 2CV,

It’s a ‘98 model, post 2002 is fine,

But to know if you’re exempt or not you have to go online.



Oh Mr Khan, the charge notice came so late,

It’s more than ten weeks since I drove and I’m really in a state,

I’ve only just discovered the error of my ways

And I could by now have used that road for 72 more days.



My penalties would be spiralling, the thought makes me quite sick,

Owing pounds in thousands I’d have now reached 36,

Increased to over 50 grand if I couldn’t pay on time

Mr Khan have I committed such an evil crime?



Oh Mr Khan, if I had loads of cash,

I’d scrap my old truck now and buy a new one in a flash,

But the penalty discriminates against old gits like me, If

I could afford a new truck I could drive it in for free.



So Mr Khan don’t you think it would be fair,

To have a sign, like toll roads, showing costs before you’re there,

They’ve got them on the Mersey, Dartford Crossing you can’t bust,

But to have to go online to find out seems to be unjust.



Oh Mr Khan I am an OAP,

And though my pension ain’t that great it means a lot to me.

I’d have to pay for ever - no, for ever and a day

And I couldn’t face the future if you took it all away.



There must be others like me, who’re really in distress,

Who crossed the line by accident and now they’re in a mess.

They’ll find it quite a struggle just to pay the penalty fine,

Our innocence makes us guilty ‘cos the system’s so unkind.



So Mr Khan, I beg you to forgive,

A situation like this I’ll ensure we won’t re-live,

I’ll stay away from London, no crime will re-commit,

And let petrol cars their CO2 (not diesel fumes) emit.



Thankyou.

 

[Adam W.]

A few years ago we were all encouraged to buy diesel vehicles and now those who have them are almost considered to be evil. I think the same will happen with electric vehicles. I don't think they are the squeaky clean answer that we're led to believe.

At the same time Friends of the Earth raised the issue of diesel particulates and were roundly dismissed as being hysterical hippies by the usual suspects in the media.

Just goes to show really.

 

[selectortone]

China is making massive advances in green energy tech

Also the largest operator of coal-fired power stations by a country mile:

 

[John Brown]

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favour of cleaner air. I just think there should be a fairer system of enforcing it. How can people who don't know they're doing wrong take evasive action.? Perhaps a 'first instance' warning might be more appropriate rather than a hefty fine. A few years ago we were all encouraged to buy diesel vehicles and now those who have them are almost considered to be evil. I think the same will happen with electric vehicles. I don't think they are the squeaky clean answer that we're led to believe.

A song for Mr Khan (To the tune of ‘Oh Mr Porter’)



Dear Mr Khan, oh what shall I do?

I drove along the 406 and now I’m in a stew,

I’ve had a nasty letter, £500 in fine

Reduced down to 250 if I pay in two weeks’ time.



Oh Mr Khan I hadn’t got a clue, that

For my Toyota Hilux an emission charge was due,

It just had an MOT and emission tests were fine.

So when I went to London I just drove right past the sign.



It was early in the morning, the sign’s for all to see,

But till the penalty charge arrived didn’t know it applied to me.

If mine had been a Hilux Surf I’d have much better luck,

But though the engine’s just the same I drive a pickup truck.



On the registration docs it’s shown as ‘PLG’,

The same as a guzzling Range Rover or a Citroen 2CV,

It’s a ‘98 model, post 2002 is fine,

But to know if you’re exempt or not you have to go online.



Oh Mr Khan, the charge notice came so late,

It’s more than ten weeks since I drove and I’m really in a state,

I’ve only just discovered the error of my ways

And I could by now have used that road for 72 more days.



My penalties would be spiralling, the thought makes me quite sick,

Owing pounds in thousands I’d have now reached 36,

Increased to over 50 grand if I couldn’t pay on time

Mr Khan have I committed such an evil crime?



Oh Mr Khan, if I had loads of cash,

I’d scrap my old truck now and buy a new one in a flash,

But the penalty discriminates against old gits like me, If

I could afford a new truck I could drive it in for free.



So Mr Khan don’t you think it would be fair,

To have a sign, like toll roads, showing costs before you’re there,

They’ve got them on the Mersey, Dartford Crossing you can’t bust,

But to have to go online to find out seems to be unjust.



Oh Mr Khan I am an OAP,

And though my pension ain’t that great it means a lot to me.

I’d have to pay for ever - no, for ever and a day

And I couldn’t face the future if you took it all away.



There must be others like me, who’re really in distress,

Who crossed the line by accident and now they’re in a mess.

They’ll find it quite a struggle just to pay the penalty fine,

Our innocence makes us guilty ‘cos the system’s so unkind.



So Mr Khan, I beg you to forgive,

A situation like this I’ll ensure we won’t re-live,

I’ll stay away from London, no crime will re-commit,

And let petrol cars their CO2 (not diesel fumes) emit.



Thankyou.

You're lucky he didn't double your fine after reading that.



Only kidding, I have had a favourable result by using humour in appeals against bank charges, parking tickets, and on one occasion an insurance claim, but most fall upon deaf ears.
Or so I like to believe. Could just be coincidence.

 

[Tom K]

It’s a nice song but the person who received it probably didn’t get as far as the first verse.
As others have said this was the LEZ charges you fell foul of not ULEZ it’s because your vehicle has no particulate filter system and the LEZ starts at the Greater London boundary the same one they are now extending ULEZ to.
In order to make as much profit as possible they like to keep all of their different schemes running.
Does anyone remember when the “Congestion Charge was introduced quite clever in the naming it’s main reasoning was that by reducing congestion we would reduce emissions