Mikebart
Established Member
Money the root of all evil,who has it,who wants it,how to get it.
Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging
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I am old enough to remember the ' pea soupers' in London - those inpenetrable fogs that used envelope the city. I also remember the introduction of 'the clean air act' and the subsequent disappearance of the smogs.
Cities have always suffered from pollution it is just that now we can't see it. The problem does have to be addressed ,but the issue is how to implement these changes so that the hardship is shared and not just loaded onto those poorer members of society who have to drive to earn a living. The goal is to all move toward this better future without throwing others under the bus in our rush to get there.
Cities have always suffered from pollution it is just that now we can't see it. The problem does have to be addressed ,but the issue is how to implement these changes so that the hardship is shared and not just loaded onto those poorer members of society who have to drive to earn a living. The goal is to all move toward this better future without throwing others under the bus in our rush to get there.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
I may be difficult to separate the reduction in emissions in London between those related to:
That the UK is only a small part of global emissions and climate change is not a reason for do nothing - leading the change can create as many opportunities as problems.
Sadly the desire for re-election may mean that political leaders who need to initiate and legislate for these changes will put electoral success above the environmental need. There is a real risk we will sleepwalk into a crisis which we could still avert.
- congestion charging reducing the volume of traffic
- emission zone charging bringing forward the purchase of lower polluting models
- changes to vehicle emissions standards making pollution reduction a function of time only
- bloated personal transport will again be the preserve of the relatively wealthy
- small EVs will become the norm for many, meeting all day to day needs
- driverless pods on demand via smartphone app for non-drivers (children, pensioners etc)
- short term rental for occasional larger vehicle needs (car sharing "clubs" already exist)
That the UK is only a small part of global emissions and climate change is not a reason for do nothing - leading the change can create as many opportunities as problems.
Sadly the desire for re-election may mean that political leaders who need to initiate and legislate for these changes will put electoral success above the environmental need. There is a real risk we will sleepwalk into a crisis which we could still avert.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
They've had to play catchup with the west. Still behind in terms of per capita carbon footprint.
In time they will most likely be the first to wind right back on non sustainable energy.
The west has lost the initiative and should have been investing and developing from a long way back.
Unfortunately our politics is dominated by Climate-Change-Sceptic lunatics and the fossil fuel lobby.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
They tend to have most to gain from cleaner air as they are in the front line. The less well off also tend to live in the most polluted areas even if they don't drive.
Rush? You must be joking - we are years behind schedule on all these issues.
We should by now be in something like a wartime emergency situation, with maximum effort being made on all fronts, at whatever the cost.
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Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Absolutely.
Not exactly sleep walking. Climate change has been forecast from a long way back. More like brain washing.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Careful, you might get labeled as a hysterical hippy kumbaya type.They tend to have most to gain from cleaner air as they are in the front line. The less well off also tend to live in the most polluted areas even if they don't drive.
Rush? You must be joking - we are years behind schedule on all these issues.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Quite right too. It does reduce emissions. It puts people off driving, especially at peak times. That's the whole idea.....
Does anyone remember when the “Congestion Charge was introduced quite clever in the naming it’s main reasoning was that by reducing congestion we would reduce emissions
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
I am. We are all very woke here in darkest Derbyshire. Lentils for tea again!
Wakey wakey!
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
I bet you wear sandals too.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
My wife watched some footage of Americans being asked about EVs. The biggest objection seemed to be the lack of noise.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Yep. I've got two pairs! Some posh ones for going out in, and flip flops etc. Beard and glasses too.
My point being they then introduced the ULEZ which initially covered the same area before they expanded it to the North and South circular. It’s was to do the same job of reducing emmissions?
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
"Yep. I've got two pairs! Some posh ones for going out in, and flip flops etc. Beard and glasses too."
Jeez!
Jeez!
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Yes. And congestion. You've got it.
Agent_zed
Established Member
you are right to question. My info is a bit out of date and it seems they have improved the situation somewhat in recent years
'As a result of contamination by organic-phase fluids and the settlement of suspended fine cuttings, benthic fauna become stressed. This results in lower diversity and the dominance of tolerant opportunistic species in several square kilometres around the well location. Since the ban on discharge of diesel oil-based drilling fluids and the restriction in discharge of other organic-phase drilling fluids, and after the substitution of most of the hazardous chemicals with less hazardous substances, the impact has significantly reduced. Studies have shown that at the peak of discharge of oil-contaminated cuttings fauna disturbance was found at more than 5 km from some platforms, but is now seldom detected beyond 500 m.'
https://oap.ospar.org/en/ospar-asse...sments/impacts-offshore-oil-and-gas-industry/
Although this doesn't account for accidents like blue horizon etc and general continued pollution from transporting oil by ship and pipe.
What I never understand is people who are climate sceptics but bundle pollution into the mix. If you don't believe in climate change from anthropogenic sources ok, but surely you can see that a river that has been polluted by effluent and is mostly dead is happening and can/should be stopped from happening. Whether climate change is happening or not I don't want to eat food or breathe air contaminated with toxic chemicals or watch habit destruction because someone wants to make more money from greenfield developments than use brownfield etc etc
People watch Grand designs and see amazing houses being built that cost nothing to run and have green roofs and water storage etc and then go and sit in a brick sweat box as that is all the house builders supply. The housing estate I walked around in Holland was full of trees and plants in the gardens. Most housing estates near me have paved over front gardens to fit in their huge cars
We could be leaders in green tech and green housing!
No Jacob two charges both for emissions the roads being a little crowded was never an issue and they are certainly no less crowded now!
That's a great site lots to dig into and read through, thanks for the link. My hand's are dirtied as I work in O&G, however from the inside I have seen change over the last 25yrs with less and less tolerance for any environmental impact.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Not what it says here, and everybody I know who travels in London says it is much less congested. Not surprising really.
"Since launching in 2003, the Congestion Charge has significantly reduced traffic congestion and harmful emissions in London, paving the way for sustainable transportation and a greener, healthier future.17 Feb 2023"
https://www.intelligenttransport.co...in 2003, the,and a greener, healthier future.
Three charges apparently Pay to drive in London
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Oh dear, what's that quote from 'Loot' ? "Everything you say will be taken down, twisted and used in evidence against you"They tend to have most to gain from cleaner air as they are in the front line. The less well off also tend to live in the most polluted areas even if they don't drive.
Rush? You must be joking - we are years behind schedule on all these issues.
I have no problem with the rush but we have to be mindful of the disproportional effect charging will have on the poorer drivers. Just because one is poor does not mean that ones reasons for owning a vehicle are any less valid than a rich person..
As ever - " It's the rich what gets the pleasure.
It's the poor what gets the blame'
It's the same the whole world over.
Ain't it just a blooming shame"
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