Just to stir the pot, has anyone noticed...

[treeturner123]

Just to give another stir!

You could double the money poured into the NHS and STILL not get the service most people want for a number of reasons:-

Management - too many of them
Paperwork, as with the Police and Teaching, far too much of it
Increasing cost of new medicines, procedures etc well exceeds the rate of inflation
Life expectancy and the ability to prolong life through amazing work by doctors
The idea, exemplified by the Blair government that fewer beds would be required due to 'Home Treatment' was always flawed. You will see above the abysmal state of Worcestershire NHS Trust. One of the main reasons for this is that they closed two hospitals in Worcester and built the new one with about half the capacity (subsequently they have had to build more) and then they closed some of the outlying 'Cottage' Hospitals, again, a very regressive step.

What is needed is Real reform of what has become too much of a Sacred Cow.

 

[RogerS]

Real reform? It's happened in Northumberland.

The fact remains that some hospital trusts do buck the trend. Northumbria for one. And that is partly down to the fact that they have integrated the Trust function with Social Services and so it is seamless and, for example, bed blocking is very rare. We pay a nominal extra stipend on top of our Council tax to pay for this. So if Northumbria can do this and they do NOT get any special treatment from the Government or NHS Galactic HQ, then WTF can't other hospital trusts/Councils? Seems to me that it is down to the Trust and damn all to do with whichever govt is in power or how much dosh the Trust gets.

Despite all the tub-thumping and finger-pointing by Messrs Cocker, Butler et al.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Despite all the tub-thumping and finger-pointing by Messrs Cocker, Butler et al.

Oh dear!!

 

[Keith Cocker]

Not to mention the zombie tory government (no change there) but more to the point; the disastrous ex-Labour zombie opposition.

Sadly it’s the best we are going to get. “Cling to nurse for fear of something worse” is Starmers new slogan for Labour.

 

[trvlr]

wot else dun the Romans for us...?

Straight roads, central hating, bath houses, some rather nice buildings various - all of which whilst they were here... And of course a few of the roads remain at least? Aslo did they not introduce bunnies - or was that the Froggies some time later?

 

[John Brown]

Central hating, there's something we could do without!

 

[John Brown]

Post deleted.

 

[selectortone]

Central hating should be the motto of the Brexit Party.

 

[Mickjay]

Real reform? It's happened in Northumberland.

The fact remains that some hospital trusts do buck the trend. Northumbria for one. And that is partly down to the fact that they have integrated the Trust function with Social Services and so it is seamless and, for example, bed blocking is very rare. We pay a nominal extra stipend on top of our Council tax to pay for this. So if Northumbria can do this and they do NOT get any special treatment from the Government or NHS Galactic HQ, then WTF can't other hospital trusts/Councils? Seems to me that it is down to the Trust and damn all to do with whichever govt is in power or how much dosh the Trust gets.

Despite all the tub-thumping and finger-pointing by Messrs Cocker, Butler et al.

Like everyone you decry, you're not comparing like for like.
Northumbria NHS Trust serves half a million people spread over a couple of not particularly big hospitals, a few cottage hospitals and medical centres. Hardly a huge trust, not even comparable to the adjacent Newcastle NHS trust.
In the overall scheme of things I'm sure it's much easier to determine outcomes when you're dealing with much smaller numbers.

 

[RogerS]

Like everyone you decry, you're not comparing like for like.
Northumbria NHS Trust serves half a million people spread over a couple of not particularly big hospitals, a few cottage hospitals and medical centres. Hardly a huge trust, not even comparable to the adjacent Newcastle NHS trust.
In the overall scheme of things I'm sure it's much easier to determine outcomes when you're dealing with much smaller numbers.

Really ? Think you missed the point. The concept of integrating social services with the trust is not dependent on numbers. Could be rolled out elsewhere.

 

[Mickjay]

Really ? Think you missed the point. The concept of integrating social services with the trust is not dependent on numbers. Could be rolled out elsewhere.

I can't be @rsed arguing with you but my point is still that it's easier to organise virtually anything with fewer people involved.

 

[RogerS]

I can't be @rsed arguing with you but my point is still that it's easier to organise virtually anything with fewer people involved.

Still missing the point presumably because it doesn't play to your narrative. The fact that Jacob has 'liked' your last post, proves it.

 

[TRITON]

This is how the country now works.

Billionaires, have taken over the running of government completely* They call the shots when it comes to any contracts the country needs for civil works, probably military too.

Those that arrange it are paid, and the money goes offshore, into accounts set up and run with directors being previous government members, cabinet ministers, solicitors. and higher ranking members of thew civil service.
*
Currently, though corrupt, members of the tory party are still originally members of the public who entered politics. Unless you vote for the reform uk party, which is owned, and run by a pair of businessmen, well one man, the other is a venture capital/hedge fund company.
So if for example reform uk were to get into power, the country would no longer be run by career politicians, but by business interests, putting their profits first.

Its not going to get better.

I know many will think, thats a bit mad, a bit paranoid or conspiracy theorist type of thing, but you can check it for yourself but it is a complete rabbit hole to disappear down.
Take any of the players, for example Baroness Mone's partner Doug Barrowman. Check out who and which companies he does business with. Check out the links to them and you will find the same names coming up time and time again. Look to who they are connected to and the businesses they deal with and again you'll see familiar names, faces, countries where they operate from.
Venture capital firms owned by individuals who go from having a personal fortune of £3m, which then in the space of 4 or 5 years jumps to staggering amounts of 40 or 70 million. People who have worked with British politicians, or have been seen in the company of.

They use the public purse like their own piggy banks, and its not illegal, because theyre the ones making the laws.

Use wiki to gather the names of individuals, and companies house will show connected businesses they held directorship in. Notice that many are incorporate and are dissolved within 6 months. Same names, same faces ,same connections, and same affiliations to members of government.

 

[selectortone]

I know many will think, thats a bit mad, a bit paranoid or conspiracy theorist type of thing

I don't think it's mad at all.

 

[Jacob]

This is how the country now works.

Billionaires, have taken over the running of government completely* They call the shots when it comes to any contracts the country needs for civil works, probably military too.

Those that arrange it are paid, and the money goes offshore, into accounts set up and run with directors being previous government members, cabinet ministers, solicitors. and higher ranking members of thew civil service.
*
Currently, though corrupt, members of the tory party are still originally members of the public who entered politics. Unless you vote for the reform uk party, which is owned, and run by a pair of businessmen, well one man, the other is a venture capital/hedge fund company.
So if for example reform uk were to get into power, the country would no longer be run by career politicians, but by business interests, putting their profits first.

Its not going to get better.

I know many will think, thats a bit mad, a bit paranoid or conspiracy theorist type of thing, but you can check it for yourself but it is a complete rabbit hole to disappear down.
Take any of the players, for example Baroness Mone's partner Doug Barrowman. Check out who and which companies he does business with. Check out the links to them and you will find the same names coming up time and time again. Look to who they are connected to and the businesses they deal with and again you'll see familiar names, faces, countries where they operate from.
Venture capital firms owned by individuals who go from having a personal fortune of £3m, which then in the space of 4 or 5 years jumps to staggering amounts of 40 or 70 million. People who have worked with British politicians, or have been seen in the company of.

They use the public purse like their own piggy banks, and its not illegal, because theyre the ones making the laws.

Use wiki to gather the names of individuals, and companies house will show connected businesses they held directorship in. Notice that many are incorporate and are dissolved within 6 months. Same names, same faces ,same connections, and same affiliations to members of government.

We need "limitarianism" and UBM in one form or another.
Moves in that direction, such as that moderate socialist policies of Corbyn/McDonnel, are quite possible, hence the hysterical reaction to Corbyn, as compared to the right wing media acceptance of the zombie opposition under Starmer

 

[dgs2001]

This is how the country now works.

Billionaires, have taken over the running of government completely* They call the shots when it comes to any contracts the country needs for civil works, probably military too.

Those that arrange it are paid, and the money goes offshore, into accounts set up and run with directors being previous government members, cabinet ministers, solicitors. and higher ranking members of thew civil service.
*
Currently, though corrupt, members of the tory party are still originally members of the public who entered politics. Unless you vote for the reform uk party, which is owned, and run by a pair of businessmen, well one man, the other is a venture capital/hedge fund company.
So if for example reform uk were to get into power, the country would no longer be run by career politicians, but by business interests, putting their profits first.

Its not going to get better.

I know many will think, thats a bit mad, a bit paranoid or conspiracy theorist type of thing, but you can check it for yourself but it is a complete rabbit hole to disappear down.
Take any of the players, for example Baroness Mone's partner Doug Barrowman. Check out who and which companies he does business with. Check out the links to them and you will find the same names coming up time and time again. Look to who they are connected to and the businesses they deal with and again you'll see familiar names, faces, countries where they operate from.
Venture capital firms owned by individuals who go from having a personal fortune of £3m, which then in the space of 4 or 5 years jumps to staggering amounts of 40 or 70 million. People who have worked with British politicians, or have been seen in the company of.

They use the public purse like their own piggy banks, and its not illegal, because theyre the ones making the laws.

Use wiki to gather the names of individuals, and companies house will show connected businesses they held directorship in. Notice that many are incorporate and are dissolved within 6 months. Same names, same faces ,same connections, and same affiliations to members of government.

A pretty much spot on assessment of the state of British Politics and the government, with all the current crop of parties affected.

Labour will alas be no better, their only real claim to fame is that Starmer is not a career politician, he at least did used to have an actual job.

The governance or lack of which has occurred over both the recent Conservative and previous Labour governments has proven beyond doubt that our political system is in my opinion totally broken and not fit for purpose.
The political elite have been caught repeatedly with their grubby hands in the till whilst showing scant regard for truth, morals or any attempt to follow up on 'Manifesto promises'

The blame culture across the government means that the whole system is paralysed with nobody willing to make any decisions or put their name to anything which could potentially come back at them in the future. Its a wonder any of them can manage to get out of bed in the morning.
Civil servants are effectively stifled and unable to do their jobs for fear of possibly getting something wrong or even getting blamed for something wrong which was nothing to do with them.

In short, Its just a mess.

 

[Jacob]

A pretty much spot on assessment of the state of British Politics and the government, with all the current crop of parties affected.

Labour will alas be no better, their only real claim to fame is that Starmer is not a career politician, he at least did used to have an actual job.

The governance or lack of which has occurred over both the recent Conservative and previous Labour governments has proven beyond doubt that our political system is in my opinion totally broken and not fit for purpose.
The political elite have been caught repeatedly with their grubby hands in the till whilst showing scant regard for truth, morals or any attempt to follow up on 'Manifesto promises'

The blame culture across the government means that the whole system is paralysed with nobody willing to make any decisions or put their name to anything which could potentially come back at them in the future. Its a wonder any of them can manage to get out of bed in the morning.
Civil servants are effectively stifled and unable to do their jobs for fear of possibly getting something wrong or even getting blamed for something wrong which was nothing to do with them.

In short, Its just a mess.

.The blame-game is tories favourite gambit -
schools can be "failed" rather than the Dept of Education itself,
or sub post masters rather than the government owned "limited" company which runs the whole dung-show,
or NHS for "bad management" rather than deliberate govt underfunding.
Or at the bottom of the pile; the poor blamed for not working hard enough, or not "getting on their bikes" etc. Tory b******s.

 

[dgs2001]

.The blame-game is tories favourite gambit -
schools can be "failed" rather than the Dept of Education itself,
or sub post masters rather than the government owned "limited" company which runs the whole dung-show,
or NHS for "bad management" rather than deliberate govt underfunding.
Or at the bottom of the pile; the poor blamed for not working hard enough, or not "getting on their bikes" etc. Tory b******s.

Alas, not just the Tories.
The whole damn lot of them

 

[Jacob]

The proposition that taxation should be used to limit extreme wealth (eg: over £10m) may be superficially appealing, but in reality is unlikely to be achievable.

• those with extreme wealth will seek to protect it
• that which motivates the pursuit of ever greater wealth is not mainly the capacity to buy more and better. It is social recognition, an unambiguous measure of success, etc
• the priority of those with wealth will tend to be rule of law, stability, economic and financial maturity, democracy, good communications etc.
• without complete accord internationally amongst entirely acceptable locations worldwide (eg: UK, US, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Japan, Australia, Bahamas, etc etc), the wealthy would simply relocate to wherever suits them best.

The focus on the extremely wealthy somewhat misses the point - as Alan Whicker once observed - "there simply aren't enough rich people to go round". The benefit to the lower half of the economic pile through increased taxes on the extremely wealthy will make little difference.

My favourite new word "Limitarianism" gets another mention here. It is the future.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/05/trillionaire-economy-democracy-ultra-rich

 

[Mickjay]

Still missing the point presumably because it doesn't play to your narrative. The fact that Jacob has 'liked' your last post, proves it.

What? exactly the same as you're missing my point because it doesn't suit your narrative! Hypocrisy much!

Scale and demographic both come into play here and just because something works in your relatively parochial area doesn't mean it will work elsewhere.

As for your comments regarding Jacob, et al, I don't agree with some of their views but I'm not automatically against them like you seem to be and vice versa, I suspect there are some long term issues on both sides and going forwards I will only be contributing to woodworking threads and leave you chaps to snipe at each other to your heart's content!