Is it worth buying mortise chisels or not?

[BrianD]

Hi all,

I am considering buying a couple of mortise chisels.

There are two issues here:

What are the recommendations for morise chisels. I am looking at Two Cherries, Ashley Iiles, and so on. Any recs?

Also, I am also considering to get a bench morticer as I am going to make several chairs and need to generate a lot of mortice joints.

So is it worth buying morice chisels (I have a set of bevelled chisels as is) considering I do plan to but bench morticer? :?

Some guidance from the experts would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Alf]

Hi all,

Hey up, Brian

I am considering buying a couple of mortise chisels.

Considering chopping a few mortises eh? Excellent.

There are two issues here:

Only two? Don't believe it... :wink:

What are the recommendations for morise chisels. I am looking at Two Cherries, Ashley Iiles, and so on. Any recs?

For my money, secondhand Oval Bolstered, aka "Pigstickers". Like these:

So is it worth buying morice chisels (I have a set of bevelled chisels as is) considering I do plan to but bench morticer? :?

Depends how hand toolish you're feeling. For 95% of folks I'd say in all probability "no".

Cheers, Alf

 

[MarcW]

Hi Brian,

If you have alot to mortice :lol: , then you better have some specialty chisels. You'll go on faster. Normally I used my beveled japanese chisels. For a certain mortice I repeated twenty times, I got some boxwood Robert Sorby mortice chisels. Instead of seven layers I made only three after. So this speeded really things up and I consider adding some more to my two (that isn't a collection yet :wink: ) It may be that it is easier to use a mortice chisel than a beveled one, because of its thickness. The sides lead the cut.

Buy one and you'll see how well it performs. Not much money spent and you find out for yourself.

I can't speak of a bench mortiser, I never saw one and wouldn't consider buying one :lol:

Regards, Marc

 

[Shady]

Brian, welcome: It also depends on your 'skill vs patience' rating... If you just want to get the chairs made, and are not terribly hand tool familiar, then I'd say, buy the bench mortiser, get familiar with it, and churn the joints out.

If, however, you have some familiarity with hand tools, and want to gain more, then try some mortise chisels. Good ones - and that means any of the brands you mention, or oval bolstered 'Alf hammers', are a revelation when it comes to the ease and speed of hand cutting - but they do require a certain degree of confidence/familiarity with hand tools to get the best from.

There's not much that's more satisfying in woodworking than smacking a razor sharp chisel with a mallet, and seeing it cut chunks out of the stock like the proverbial knife through butter. No machine noise, very little dust, and the pleasure of seeing your muscle power making the joint. Bevelled chisels will cut a mortise, but can't take the sort of battering and prying that makes the job a hell of a lot quicker - and, bizarrely, more accurate...

 

[CONGER]

Greetings WWW-WWers, and BrianD...

I had never used mortise chisels, but for one particular 'job' last Autumn, I bought a 'Two Cherries'(!) Mortise chisel Series 1306 from one of our two excellent suppliers here in Germany.

There is a picture of the chisel here... http://www.fine-tools.com/kirsch10.jpg

The chisel is beautifully put together. It is MASSIVE, and definitely not for the weak-of-limb. You can see a very useful size comparison here... http://www.fine-tools.com/G10018.htm

The chisel blade did require quite some post-purchase tuning (out of dimension); I did raise this with the dealer, who was mortified(!), and did offer an immediate replacement (excellent dealer - I turned him down, as I had already 'fixed' the chisel). I raised the quality issue with the (quality german) manufacturer; after a LOT of tedious explaining and waiting, they finally took my matter seriously; they apologised, and sent me a (cute, but useless) letter opener in the form of one of their chisels, to compensate. I have since groind a bevel at the end of the letter-opener, and it now serves as a cute little paring chisel, and as a monument to manufacturer arrogance.

The chisel did take a good edge (Tormek and scary-sharp), and when I used it, I was amazed at what I had been missing when cutting mortises up to then. The 'registration' is phenomenal, and it really does whiz through the wood (see Shady's posting), and makes a fine mortise.

Conclusion... yes... if you are a 'hand-tooler', then get mortise chisels. Buy the best you can afford (you only regret it once)... buy from a reputable dealer (see my experience). Yes, I would buy the same chisel again, though there is a lot of buzz about the Lie-Nielsen chisels.

Two more tips... only buy the mortise chisels you need, and that is typically three or less... forget 'sets', they end up being dust collectors; forget trying to cut mortises (or most other joints for that matter) in bad wood.

Work safe -g- -- who has now written his maiden posting here.

 

[DaveL]

Hi CONGER,

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Chris Knight]

Conger,
Welcome to the forum - we have quite a few Irish here although most seem still to be at home.

 

[Alf]

Welcome, Conger

I have since groind a bevel at the end of the letter-opener, and it now serves as a cute little paring chisel, and as a monument to manufacturer arrogance.

Love it :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Conger

Welcome to UKW.

Cheers
Neil

 

[BrianD]

To all that replied, thanks for the inputs.

Seems to me that i should take the conservative approach and buy a minimum set of mortice chisels, ie just what I need for the current job, and build on top of that if necessary (as I go).

Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Midnight]

PPPS and Lie-Nielsen no good either. Not deep enough, have a neck/shoulder (makes them weak) and are parallel sided. Sides should be slightly tapered from the face otherwise they will stick if you bang them in hard.

utter horsefeathers....!!

if mine are anything to go by, the L-N's work like a charm.. dmack em as hard as ya want, they'll take it, and as for weak... they took my +80kg's with contemptious ease...

 

[Mirboo]

I'm glad to hear that Midnight. I recently bought the set of 5 Lie-Nielsen mortice chisels but I haven't had a chance to use them yet.

 

[MikeW]

Interesting - Alf's snap shows yer genuine mortice chisels unlike the Deiter Schmit offerings which look decidedly flimsy. Nobody seems to make real ones nowadays. I think tool makers just lose the knowledge and perhaps don't realise that a mortice chisel is intended to be bashed as fast as possible as hard as poss with the biggest mallet you can handle. ...

Mr. G--the Ray Iles mortice chisels are well done.

LINK

As well, Barr will make anything you want--with better--at least as good as the best--steel that ever was.

Take care, Mike

PS--the LN will take a beatin'

 

[Waka]

PPPS and Lie-Nielsen no good either. Not deep enough, have a neck/shoulder (makes them weak) and are parallel sided. Sides should be slightly tapered from the face otherwise they will stick if you bang them in hard.

Such a bold sweeping statement about the LN mortise chisels, mine are fine and haven't suffered from a good haerd swipe with the mallet.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Shady]

Hmm - I hadn't noticed that the L-N's were parallel sided before: that does seem to be against the received wisdom on these weapons. I still think you might be being a little over-dismissive however, Jacob: most who use them seem to like 'em.

 

[CONGER]

Glad to see the comments from Midnight, Mirboo, MikeW, Waka, and Shady... I had rather classified the statements from Mr_Grimsdale as being poppycock myself.

I have had the LN offerings in my hand... and used them. Except for the price (short at that time), I thought they were excellent, and they certainly did not leave the impression of being 'no good either'. They certainly took a beating, and left an impression of being very robust and certainly not being under-dimensioned.

Now saying 'Deiter Schmit offerings which look decidedly flimsy' (actually 'Schmid') is decidedly not the true, at least in the case of the 'Two Cherries'(!) mortice chisels. I have never seen a new or old chisel (except timber framing slicks I saw in Finland) with such a large, and well constructed grip. The LN chisels are decidedly small and 'flimsy' when compared. This chisel did not react negatively to being whacked repeatedly into oak with a 1kg mallet; I had similar experiences with the LN chisels on trial.

As I suggested in my last posting, the finish of the blade on MY 2C chisel was miserable; I suspect that the LN product is better, and perhaps the steel used.

I can not speak at first hand about the rest (Barr, Isles etc.), and I can not offer any comparative details for the antique lobby. I suspect that Alfs oldies are superb, though I would have my doubts on how good the steel is when compared to the LN steel.

-gerard-

 

[Anonymous]

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[Mirboo]

The spiel about the Lie-Nielsen mortice chisels on their website states that they are "designed with cabinetmaking in mind, not timber framing...."

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=mc_set

Mr. Grimsdale, are you comparing them to framing mortice chisels and that is why you think they look flimsy?

Perhaps we need to be more specific about the type of mortice chisel we are talking about when we make statements about their relative robustness?