Infrared heating for workshop?

[trumpetmonkey]

I was all set to get a woodburning stove, until I realised we're in a smoke free zone and a clean burning stove plus correct type of flue installed to regs would cost near £2000.

So I am looking at Infrared heaters. It seems they are quite cost effective actually:
http://www.infranomic-energysolutions.c ... costs.html


Any experience or advice from other members?

 

[M P Hales]

Used to work in car workshop years ago, the boss installed infrared heating which worked reasonably well but all the staff complained of headaches within an hour of being switched on.
Things might have improved these days but something to consider.
Martin

 

[trumpetmonkey]

If anyone's interested, in the end I bought 2 Varma V400 infrared heaters from Sunswitch: http://www.sunswitch.net/workshop_heaters.html

Benefits: Immediate heat, direct it where you want by turning the heater on it's bracket (wall mounted), and added bonis is they are amazing for making water based paints dry quicker!

Downsides: The headache thing is an issue Martin. They are very hot where they shine on you but then your legs and back remain cold. And they do use a fair bit of power!

 

[MMUK]

I've used infrared and halogen before. Didn't experience the headaches but found that the instant heat was instant cold once turned off so you had to have them on constantly. Therefore, they worked out more expensive to run than my oil filled radiator system. That stays hot for hours after a half hour soak time.

 

[Jinx]

I bought an inexpensive halogen heater and I find it quite good. Its true that when it is off it goes cold straight away, but I find that suits me. I have noticed if collects a lot of dust on the bars though and I wonder whether that is a fire risk - not a real problem as it stands away from things and is only on when I am there. Jinx

 

[jimmy rivers]

Possibly a bit late, however my 2 cents for others considering...

• You have to be in the 'Beam' to feel the effect
• They need to be on all the time
• Don't / are very slow to heat the air (therefore points 1&2)
• Headaches, itchy and dry skin
• The replacement tube elements are often more expensive than a new unit
• The 3000 W, 240v Plug in types will cook your sockets and 2.5 mm wiring if run for long periods :!:
• Wood dust can collect on the reflectors reducing efficiency
• Expensive to run on a full time basis

You'll probably of guessed... I'm not a fan :roll:

I'd say they are more suited for temporary use in outside or semi outside environments eg. smoking booths, sports arenas, mechanics garage where the door is open regularly , hot tub area... etc.

We use oil heaters (timer type) and a fan heater to flash the temp up first thing in the morning… and lots of building insulation :wink:

Cheers, Jim

 

[John Brown]

In my simplistic view, there is little difference in the efficiency of any electrical heating method. After all, how does any inefficiency manifest itself? Heat. The infra-red heaters have the "advantage" of heating you, the target, as opposed to all the air in your workshop. That may be what you want, or it may not. The oil-filled radiator will continue be be warm after you pull the power, which also may or may not be what you want, but the oil-filled rad will also take longer to heat up in the first place. As far as I know, the main efficiency gain with ceramic elements and the like is that they can control the temperature much more accurately, as opposed to going over temperature and then shutting off until under the set temperature. This is analogous to driving at a steady speed instead of flooring the accelerator and then coasting.
I may be wrong about this, of course, in which case I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know.

 

[MMUK]

As far as I know, the main efficiency gain with ceramic elements and the like is that they can control the temperature much more accurately, as opposed to going over temperature and then shutting off until under the set temperature. This is analogous to driving at a steady speed instead of flooring the accelerator and then coasting.
I may be wrong about this, of course, in which case I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know.

This principal can be applied to any kind of electrical heat source quite easily by using a thermostat. In my case I use PT100 sensors to detect temperature and control the heaters through CAL 3300 micro controllers on a PID setting with external power relays. If I want to I can keep the temperature stable to within 0.1*c. As it is I have it set to keep to +/- 1*c.

 

[MrYorke]

And there's me finally starting to wear trousers to keep warm!

 

[Yetty]

And there's me finally starting to wear trousers to keep warm!

If you use infra-red heaters, maybe no need for the trousers !

 

[John Brown]

As far as I know, the main efficiency gain with ceramic elements and the like is that they can control the temperature much more accurately, as opposed to going over temperature and then shutting off until under the set temperature. This is analogous to driving at a steady speed instead of flooring the accelerator and then coasting.
I may be wrong about this, of course, in which case I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know.

This principal can be applied to any kind of electrical heat source quite easily by using a thermostat. In my case I use PT100 sensors to detect temperature and control the heaters through CAL 3300 micro controllers on a PID setting with external power relays. If I want to I can keep the temperature stable to within 0.1*c. As it is I have it set to keep to +/- 1*c.

Sounds like you're trying to blind me with science now(and I think you mean "principle"), but can you explain why you believe your oil-filled radiators are cheaper to run? They still have to convert electrical energy into heat, and, as I said, any "losses" end up as heat anyway. In any event, the standard thermostat on an oil-filled radiator is probably a fairly crude bi-metal strip, that knows nothing of PID.
Then again, maybe you thought you were being amusing, taking the PID.

 

[MMUK]

As far as I know, the main efficiency gain with ceramic elements and the like is that they can control the temperature much more accurately, as opposed to going over temperature and then shutting off until under the set temperature. This is analogous to driving at a steady speed instead of flooring the accelerator and then coasting.
I may be wrong about this, of course, in which case I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know.

This principal can be applied to any kind of electrical heat source quite easily by using a thermostat. In my case I use PT100 sensors to detect temperature and control the heaters through CAL 3300 micro controllers on a PID setting with external power relays. If I want to I can keep the temperature stable to within 0.1*c. As it is I have it set to keep to +/- 1*c.

Sounds like you're trying to blind me with science now(and I think you mean "principle"), but can you explain why you believe your oil-filled radiators are cheaper to run? They still have to convert electrical energy into heat, and, as I said, any "losses" end up as heat anyway. In any event, the standard thermostat on an oil-filled radiator is probably a fairly crude bi-metal strip, that knows nothing of PID.
Then again, maybe you thought you were being amusing, taking the PID.

Yes, I did mean principle, it was a long day yesterday

Basically, my rads don't have stats fitted. I use the CAL3300 to detect actual temperature using a high accuracy PT100 probe (platinum resistance thermometer). The CAL has an output relay which I use to control a larger power relay (solid state) for switching the rad on and off.

Initial heat up time in my workshop is, at this time of year, about 20 minutes. From then the temperature never deviates by more than 1*c. The PID control acts in an almost strobing effect, flickering power on and off. The closer to the setpoint, the quicker the PID flickers power. The result is that I never get a temperature overshoot and less electrical energy is used and wasted.

In a normal bi-metallic stat set up, there is always an overshoot, then it cools down and switches on again and this is repeated again and again. This uses more electrical energy.

 

[Jinx]

Hmm there comes a point where I actually think paying a bit more is a better option than having to work so hard to get to know the answer??? In real money the Infra Red Heater cost me about £25.00 it costs about 20p per hour on full power and I use it about 12hours a week max - and not on maximum heat - so the worst cost price for me is about £2.40 per week, and only on the cold days. So even if I found a system that was half price I could only save £1.20!

I think overall it depends on how much you need to use it - mine is a hobby for a few hours a week, it would be different if this was a job where I spent most of my working time.

Just a thought, probably not right... Jinx

 

[MrYorke]

And there's me finally starting to wear trousers to keep warm!

If you use infra-red heaters, maybe no need for the trousers !

Ooh, I wonder if that'll help with my tan lines!