How to tell if glue has been affected by cold temperature?

[Sawdust=manglitter]

I took advantage of an Axminster offer on the weekend and ordered some Titebond 3 as I've nearly run out. It got delivered this morning, but as it was so cold this morning it got me wondering whether during transit or storage at depots etc whether the glue would have been subjected to below freezing temperatures!? I haven't opened the glue yet (won't until I need it) and will be storing it in a heated cupboard, but at which point would I find out or notice whether the glue has been affected by the sub zero temperatures? It may sound like a stupid question, but I just don't want to find that my new glue is no longer effective once I've run out of the old stuff. Any suggestions or experiences would be appreciated

 

[NazNomad]

Titebond III can be applied in temps as low as 47℉ (8.33℃) but I'm not sure how low storage temps would affect it.


Ok ...

Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline. Not for structural or load bearing applications. Use when temperature, glue and materials are above 45°F. Store product below 75°F. Storage above this temperature may cause product to thicken and reduce the usable shelf life. If thickened, shake vigorously by firmly tapping bottle on a hard surface until product is restored to original form. Because of variances in the surfaces of treated lumber, it is a good idea to test for adhesion. For best results gluing exterior doors or exotic and oily woods, please contact out Technical Support Team at 1-800-347-4583. Read MSDS before use. KEEP FROM FREEZING




From elsewhere ...

Freezing won't hurt most Aliphatic or PVA glue in the bottle. Check with the manufacturer for certainty. Titebond says their wood glues will survive freezing. Just let it thaw and mix it before use, it will separate in the container.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Thanks Naz! Where did you find the info on Titebond surviving freezing?

I remember speaking to the Axi store manager in Cardiff last year who mentioned why the price of their Titebond was so high compared to elsewhere (at the time atleast), and what he told me was that they once had a container of Titebond shipped from the US during winter, and due to the freezing temperatures during transit that the entire container of glue was ruined, so they now apparently only import the glue during summer/warmer months!? Hence my concern. I

know overnight delivery within the UK is hardly days at sea in a container during winter, but it just got me thinking!

 

[skipdiver]

I had a 3.8 ltr bottle of Titebond delivered last week from Axminster and not having yet got around to building the cupboard i intend to keep my glues in, i have wrapped it in my thick padded workcoat. I'm not sure whether my workshop gets down to freezing since i insulated it so will need to check it because it's freeeeezing here at the moment. Very thick frost this morning.

 

[NazNomad]

Thanks Naz! Where did you find the info on Titebond surviving freezing?/quote]

It was from a thread here ... http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum ... mperatures

 

[iNewbie]

Thanks Naz! Where did you find the info on Titebond surviving freezing?

I remember speaking to the Axi store manager in Cardiff last year who mentioned why the price of their Titebond was so high compared to elsewhere (at the time atleast), and what he told me was that they once had a container of Titebond shipped from the US during winter, and due to the freezing temperatures during transit that the entire container of glue was ruined, so they now apparently only import the glue during summer/warmer months!? Hence my concern. I

know overnight delivery within the UK is hardly days at sea in a container during winter, but it just got me thinking!

I guess under some consumer thang they couldn't sell it.

Always go to the source

http://www.titebond.com/news_article/13 ... _Life.aspx

 

[Steve Maskery]

Blimey, I'm very surprised by that, I'd always assumed that a freeze was the death knell. But I guess that they know what they are talking about.

 

[Glynne]

I'm surprised too. I've been faithfully bringing all my glues back to the house every time I've finished with them in the workshop but it would appear I'd be better leaving them in a cooler environment.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Thanks for the link to that article iNewbie... That goes against everything I have previously read regarding the storage of glues!!!

Just like Steve I always thought that freezing was the death of glues! As a result I built myself an insulated cupboard which is thermostatically controlled by a light bulb and room thermostat which currently does a good job and keeping temperature between 14 and 19 degrees celsius - I have two digital thermometers which show max and min temperatures inside in different locations just to make sure.

But that article is very interesting! But Glynne, I think its more of a controlled cooler environment they are talking about rather than too much fluctuation.

 

[custard]

Blimey, I'm very surprised by that, I'd always assumed that a freeze was the death knell. But I guess that they know what they are talking about.

+1

I'm learning a lot of valuable lessons from this and other recent similar threads.

=D>

 

[skipdiver]

This thread has sparked a thought in me, which is i'm sure that i read somewhere that a good place to store titebond is in the fridge, so i had a quick Google and found this snippet.

http://www.titebond.com/news_article/13 ... _Life.aspx

Seems they can survive some freeze thaw cycles.

 

[skipdiver]

Sorry, seems i linked to the same article as inewbie. His link didn't work for me first time i tried it.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Going back to my original question, based on what's been said then I guess the answer is that I don't really need to worry if the glue has gone through one potential freeze thaw cycle during transit!?

And thanks for the replies and info. This forum teaches me something new every day, what a great source of knowledge and information!

 

[memzey]

I'm not sure I believe this, at least my own experience of titebond glue that has frozen and thawed is somewhat different in that when tested the glue failed. I've still got the bad glue knocking around somewhere. Might try another test now.

 

[skipdiver]

I'm not sure I believe this, at least my own experience of titebond glue that has frozen and thawed is somewhat different in that when tested the glue failed. I've still got the bad glue knocking around somewhere. Might try another test now.

But are you sure you know how many times it may have frozen and thawed before it went off? I've never really given much thought previously to storing glue anywhere other than 'on the shelf' with other stuff. For all i know, my glues may have frozen and thawed several times. It's only since i insulated my workshop that i have given much thought about temperatures and how they affect your work environment.

 

[hammer n nails]

Did some glue ups yesterday with tightbond and all ok and was very cold last night in my unheated shed but was all ok

 

[ED65]

On artists' forums a very similar worry crops up during cold weather about acrylic mediums and paints. These are commonly shipped in unheated trucks and stored in unheated warehouses for who knows know long before being put on the shelves and occasional freezing is a certainly across much of North America during the winter. Acrylic mediums are quite similar to PVA glue in a lot of ways and they can show damage from being frozen that's exactly like PVA glue, commonly heavy separation or a consistency like cottage cheese.

The usual advice from those who don't automatically toss them if either condition is found is this: if you can mix it back together again to a smooth consistency it's usable, if you can't it's gone too far and you should chuck it. I'm fairly confident the same would be true of PVA but since we have to rely on the glue for structural strength and not bonding two pieces of paper together we should be cautious.

But with glue we have an advantage in that can test it directly ourselves, by bonding together some scraps (prepared just as the workpiece joints would be) and checking the bond strength. If the glue is compromised it could be quite obvious how much weaker the joint is, the bond should be strong enough that you tear away face grain when you break the pieces apart. If that doesn't happen it probably indicates the glue isn't at 100%.

 

[Ttrees]

Looks like I need to test the stuff before using ,where I come from
This is a type referred to as d3 ,Doesn't smell like anything's noticeably wrong ...
I attempted to glue that thin strip at 14 degrees Celsius with every clamp I had .
pulled it off easily with no damage after 24 hours clamped .
I suspected this as there was no bond between any wedges either.

This is might prove to be a problem for glue manufactures ,
suggesting retailers to change to warmer shelves:roll: