Help with oil finish on teak pilothouse! A tale of two doors

[Phoinikos]

Any help getting this finish to look at all uniform would be greatly appreciated!!

I am completely new to woodworking and finishes. We moved into a barge in London with a great teak pilothouse. The varnish, though, was so old that it had completely worn through in several areas, leaving bare rotted/graying/pitted wood. Trying to be useful, I thought I'd remove the old varnish then refinish with teak oil.

What I did:

On the LEFT door, I sanded only. The right-hand vertical piece of this door is the look I'd hoped to get. I sanded it down using only 120 grit paper on a 1/3 sheet sheet sander. It took near 2 hours for just that one piece!

Hoping to speed things up (I know, always the culprit), I switched to 60 grit paper, followed by 120 for the rest of the left door. It was...ok, but it seemed that I got a much grainer(?) appearance with more blotching, particularly on the left-hand vertical piece.

So, on the RIGHT door, I used a varnish stripper. Worked it in for a few minutes, let it sit for 20-30 minutes and then scraped and used a wire scourer to get the gunk off. THEN I sanded, starting at 60 grit, then 120, then 240.

Now what??? Searching the interwebs, I'm a bit bewildered by all of the options:
1) BLO: I like the idea of an oil finish that just needs some a few coats reapplied with a rag every few months. But I worry that boiled linseed oil won't provide the necessary UV protection.

2) Tung oil: Seems more protective, but also looks more demanding to use and much more expensive.

3) Teak oil: I used teak oil because we had so much on hand and I liked the color. Though mentioning teak oil on woodworking forums seems to draw very negative reactions!! we still have loads and I liked the effect on the left door, at least.

4) Teak sealer: No idea what this is, really, but I've seen it mentioned several times.

5) Spar varnish: Go back to the standard Epifanes or whatnot plastic coating to keep everything out.

Any and all ideas would be greatly appreciated!

 

[mbartlett99]

Hi there and welcome to the wonderful world of boats - you are clearly quite mad or will be soon.

There's a good reason for using epifanes - it works and lasts. Thats why we use it superyachts in the sun. BLO is completely inappropriate externally and tung oil not much better; teak oil can be anything. Some use Deks Oilje and thats ok in the UK. Your best investment might be Rebecca Wittmans 'Brightwork: The Art of Finishing Wood' - a great combination of coffee table book and how to manual - its great.

 

[Phoinikos]

Mad? Yes, that seems about right.

Thank you for the quick reply -- it's good to hear an opinion from someone used to boating. From other woodworking forums, I've basically been told I'd be crazy to do anything but Tung or BLO despite my concerns about weathering! It looks like I have much to read and learn... Also, a neighbor just applied the Deks Olje and it's looking grand, but it ought to for the cost!

Thanks again!

 

[custard]

There's a good reason for using epifanes - it works and lasts.

Agreed, apparently no one loads their products with more UV inhibitors. Expensive, but on the water it's unbeatable.

Incidentally, I'd go straight to the yachting forums for advice, boats are just a completely different game from furniture and even external joinery.

Good luck!

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I've messaged my best mate who just happens to be captain of a 170ft sailing yacht which has a plenty of teak on it. It must be a durable finish as they sail all over the world, from arctic to carribean. I'll ask what they use and get back to you.

 

[Wuffles]

Two tins of Epifanes in the workshop, bought them for a project, read the instructions and never bothered (I'm from the quick and easy school of thinking). Anything with that much faff associated with its application must be good.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Removed in view of a direct quote from my buddy, posted below.

 

[Wuffles]

What it says on the tin, faff - 12 hours+ between coats too, from memory. Super faff.

 

[mbartlett99]

Your man is being a little extreme - 12/14 coats? The thinner for the finish coats isn't needed if you're half decent either. One important point that he did raise were the coats; traditional varnish like epifanes takes months to fully cure up and all those build coats will slow it. Nothing you can do apart from use 2 pack like awl clear.

Personally;
1 Strip with heat gun
2. Sand to 150-180
3. 50/50 mix
4. 2 x 75/25 then gentle knock back with 240
5. Full strength depending on conditions for as many as you can stand with a light sand inbetween.

Usually grain should be filled by 4 and 8 will last for years in UK sunlightl

Yes it is a faff to be sure.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

My mate got back to me with an email explaining exactly what they do. Obviously, please keep in mind this is the procedure on a yacht worth in excess of £100m, so their maintenance budget is money no object and there is zero margin for error. Just needs adjusting to suit.

Heres his email entitled "Crocodiles and Holidays", verbatim:

"In a nutshell bare timber needs to be sanded (240-320 ish) till happy with no scratches, marks, etc. It must then be clean (alcohol is the best for this) and oil free (yes, teak has its own natural oils but that’s different).

The next part is very important: coating needs to adhere perfectly to the wood substrate, if this isn’t achieved then subsequent coats are wasted and what will happen is there will be a gap between timber and varnish which will go yellow and look streaky. So, first coats can go something like …. PP varnish (made by Epifanes from Holland). This is a 2 component 50/50 mix thinned with correct thinner (acetone based) and the benefit of this is it’s fast drying and can be ‘hot coated’ i.e. second coat applied some hours after first. In fact, I’ve hot coated PP several times but you have to be careful. PP has UV filters but it’s not a ‘top-coat’ finish. You could fill the grain with this then move onto a topcoat as it’s a polyurethane product and will match well with the top coa

The other option (my experience and our professional varnish team) is to use a one-part varnish. Epifanes also make this and personally it’s my favourite with a lovely smell and thus cleaning up is easier with solvents, etc. rather than the once-mixed-will –cure whatever polys. It’s also a cheaper option (slightly). First the base product is applied direct to timber but MUST be thinned 50% to get into grain slowly reducing thinner until final coats receive 10% or no thinner. Don’t overlook the importance of this build-up process. Realistically, for that super-yacht depth and shine you’ll be looking at 15-20 coats! However 10-12 will probably do. Depending on exposure to weather (sun esp.) re-coating will need to be done periodically. As a guide, we do all our ‘flat’s which are the upward facing surfaces twice a year even though we cover as best as possible when yacht not in use.

If left until the finish needs doing it’s too late and you will see ‘crazing’, yellowing, cracks, etc. and need to re-sand much deeper to find a good base in the varnish layer. Better to do more regularly and maintain that shine, depth and UV protection.

Water seeping under edges will show as dark or black (rotten timber) under the varnish. Repairs can be successfully effected by cutting the varnish off, drying wood and rebuilding section (not forgetting to tackle source of moisture ingress first!)

Varnish is beautiful but it’s a very expensive finish – no way around it. Don’t forget quality badger-hair brushes too, this isn’t just to stop the bristles falling out but they hold the product and lay it out better. This brings me to my final point; varnish (like paint) needs ‘tipping’ back into the previous wet section, too short sections and it’ll look lumpy, too long and you’ll have a dry edge which will need sanding out. At the end of the day though it’s all dependent on the finish you want to achieve.

So, wondering about the subject? Excessive varnish on a vertical surface (using a one comp varnish) will result in a skin drying while underneath flows. This creates a ‘crocodile’. Too little product and a gap is left – you guessed it - Holiday!

That’s my T’penth!"

 

[Doingupthehouse]

Hi,

It might not be super-yacht finish, but I can recommend Le Tonkinois varnish.

http://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/varMain.html

We used this when we restored our first boat, a 1960s cabin cruiser. Applied with a Jenny (foam) brush, flows out beautifully and smells nice too.

Finish lasted really well for us - applied about 6 coats I think - de-nibbed between coats.

Cheers
Simon