Hells Granny Pays Up

[Woodythepecker]

You will remember that a few weeks ago in John Elliott's thread Pricing a kitchen, how to get work AND make a profit? i told you about a 65 year old woman who i built a library for, and who then made every excuse imaginable why she could not pay me the £11,000 she owed me.

Well to update you i received a cheque this morning for a one and only payment of £7,700. Yes i know that this is £3,300 short but my solicitor advised me to cut my losses and accept it.
To cut a long story short, after my solicitor wrote to her he received a reply from her solicitor stating that due to her circumstances she was unable to pay the full amount at the moment. It then turns out that we cannot even put a charge on the house as her SON NOW OWNS IT, and he did not even buy it off her, she gave it to him just as she would have done in a will.
We were then told that her son was going to help her and that they would pay me £8,000 as a final settlement if there was no court case.
My solicitor advised me to accept it because if as it appears she doesn't own any property or have any money in the bank and is an old age pensioner, i may get a lot less and they would order her to pay a monthly amount, which on a pension would take years to pay.

So i accepted it and with the £300 solicitors fee that left me with £7,700.

What has this country become when (1) an old age pensioner trys to rip you off (2) Then forces you to accept way under the agreed price. (3) But what makes this beyond belief is my solicitor has heard about this woman doing the same thing in the past, so how do people like her get away with it?

The sad thing about this is, it will probably put me off trusting anyone again, yet i am sure that there is a lot of trustworthy people about, but a thing like this leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Anyway to cheer my self up i am thinking about getting a little toy, it cannot cost to much as this money has got to go back into the business, but a little one will not hurt.
I was reading about the WoodRat but i am not sure if it would be any good for the professional side of woodworking. For the ratters out there, would it be of any benefit to me, when you think that time is money.

Regards

Woody

 

[Gill]

There are some rotten people out there, Woody . Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, we tend to remember the bad ones we encounter and take the good ones for granted.

An experience like that must make you want to seek references and ask for payment in advance before taking on future jobs. Impractical, I know, but it would make me feel that way.

Gill

 

[Neil]

Great to hear that you've got something out of the whole sorry affair, Woody. Enjoy your new toy, whatever you end up with!

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Travis Byrne]

Hello Woody
That is the pitts---I guess that we live and learn.

Just something to think about: In the US, you can file a lean on a piece of property even if the person who ordered the work does not own the property. This may not get your money right away, but the owner will have to clear this before he can sell said property. It may be 20 or 30 years down the road but he will have to clear the cloud from the deed be fore he can move said property. All its takes here is a trip to the court house and a small filing fee.

Like the man said, I will be smarter next time
Good luck
Travis

 

[radicalwood]

Hi Woody.

not a good story at least there was some thing at the end of it.

You need to spend some of it on termites and postage :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: .

Neil

 

[Adam]

What a sad story, although you have to look on the bright side and getting anything, rather than nothing is as much as you can hope, and I'm sure your solicitor is right to suggest you simlply cut your losses and run. These things can end up with large legal fees if you are not careful.

I'm not sure if a 'rat would be useful or not, you need to tell us more about the type of WW you are doing.

At least having opened a thread about non-payment, people here have contributed some thoughts and opinions, and hopefully you will have learned something from it all.

Adam

 

[Adam]

Just as an aside, I was chatting to a chappie who does custom glass houses for busineses - I don't fully understand the whole of it but it seems like precision double glazing which spans large distances without the need for supports in the middle,m just at the edges. Anyway, a company ordered a large fabrication worth about £50K, and after completion simply refused to pay. It became clear they would not, nor had ever intended to pay and basically said screw you. Amazingly, just a few weeks later it seems a JCB with some chains attached to it ripped the edge supports out during the night. The damage was sufficient for the whole thing to be condemned.

Adam

 

[Woodythepecker]

And i really thought that you guys were decent and law abiding. JCB's that disappear into the night. God can you imagine waking up and rubbing the sleep from your eyes only to see this big yellow mouth coming at you out of the dark. absolutely brilliant. :evil: :evil: :twisted: :twisted: 8) 8)

As for the termites lovely. The only thing is with my luck she would probably take me to court to in force the guarantee.

Remind me not to upset you lot.

Regards

Woody

 

[chiba]

As I understand it, you can't just give a house away - there are tax implications. Surely the son will have reported all of his capital gain to the Inland Revenue? I mean it'd only be right as an upstanding citizen to ask and enquire... :twisted:

 

[SimonA]

Woody....it good to see you got 'some'money back in the end.....as for a little toy instead of getting a Rat what about another Festool to add to the collection....maybe a dust extractor? I just wish they would make a biscuit jointer!!

Simon

 

[Chris Knight]

Woody,

Good news about the money - well a whole lot better than it could have been anyway.

I like the Rat very much but I thinks its utility depends so much on the type of joinery you do that until that is better defined, the question is too open-ended. It is extremely versatile and therefore suits someone who does a whole bunch of different stuff but although they claim it can be used for batch joinery where you cut a whole swath of drawer dovetails at once I am doubtful I would try. If I were just doing kitchens, say, then a Leigh FMT might be the way to go, recalling Aragorn's stack of mortice and tenons.

I think it comes into its own when contemplating something new because it can be used in so many ways and so it is a great prototyping machine that can eliminate a bunch of purpose made jigs.

 

[Woodythepecker]

Chiba, i would have thought that the solicitor would has noticed that, but just incase i have left a message for him to contact me. If that is right i am straight on to the inland revenue.
You have also put another thought in my mind. If what you say is true, he would surely have known this so why would he let us know and risk us informing on him What if he has owned the house all along. With his mother living there surely he would be responsible for what she has done to the house?

Simon, i have also been looking at their sanders. In the long run a sander would probably be more sensible.

Regards

Woody

 

[Neil]

I just wish they would make a biscuit jointer!!

You and I really are thinking alike today, Simon!

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Scott]

Woody

I think (as Chiba says) you'll find she can give the house to the son but that the tax man then considers that she is making a Capital Gain by no longer having to pay rent/mortgage/whatever. If she doesn't pay the son rent then the Revenue will consider her liable for tax on rent at whatever they think is the going rate for her area/property.

Not sure about the son's liability but it's obviously seperate from the mother's.

I'm not certain but I'm fairly sure this is the case anyway. It's to do with the Government trying to close the loophole on inheritence tax whereby everyone was giving their houses to their kids long before they popped their clogs .... I think.....but then agin I might be talking complete rubbish!

Glad you got something back anyway

 

[mudman]

Woody

I think (as Chiba says) you'll find she can give the house to the son but that the tax man then considers that she is making a Capital Gain by no longer having to pay rent/mortgage/whatever. If she doesn't pay the son rent then the Revenue will consider her liable for tax on rent at whatever they think is the going rate for her area/property.

Not sure about the son's liability but it's obviously seperate from the mother's.

I'm not certain but I'm fairly sure this is the case anyway. It's to do with the Government trying to close the loophole on inheritence tax whereby everyone was giving their houses to their kids long before they popped their clogs .... I think.....but then agin I might be talking complete rubbish!

Glad you got something back anyway

I think they were talking about doing this. Essentially, living free in the house becomes a taxable benefit. I didn't think they'd done it yet, especially with an election comin. :wink:

Anyway, apart from that, there aren't any tax implications for the son so long as his mother survives for seven years after gifting the house to him.

Well, that's my understanding anyway, somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mudman]

Had another thought.
In accepting the money, I'd be inclined to get the lawyer to draw up an agreement whereby all guarantees and obligations on your part are voided.

 

[Anonymous]

Woody

I used to make a living helping people avoid inheritance, income and capital gains tax and although its been a few years my understanding is that Barry is correct. No Cap Gains implications until the son comes to sell the house and even then probably only if it is not his principle private residence. No IHT if the old dear survives seven years. From the sounds of it you are dealing with some pretty clued up, if dodgy characters.

Just to wander completely off topic I am owed a little over a thousand pounds for some work I did for someone. I have a court order in my favour but the individual concerned took similar action to divest himself of assets and make sure all his business payments went to his wife. Hence I would just be throwing good money after bad trying to enforce the judgement. However he has recently formed a limited company to continue the business. Does anyone know if I can get at the assets of that company by virtue of him being a director even though the debt arose when he was a sole trader?

Ta

Roy

 

[mudman]

I'm pretty sure that you won't be able to. The company is a separate legal entity that has its own assets. These won't actually belong to the chap even if it is his company, so I'd say you can't get your hands on them unless the debt is actually against the company itself.

 

[Aragorn]

99.9% certain that's right Barry. He, as director, is simply an employee of the company

 

[Anonymous]

Although he, as a director of said company, will be paying himself dividends (to benefit from lower tax rates), or a salary. Therefore, he as an individual has funds with which to settle the debt.