HandTool decisions decisions..

[TornUp]

Hi All,

Long time no see!

So in short i have decided to dedicate myself to traditional hand tool joinery and furniture making(box making to start with likely)

I don't have a great deal of money or space in my workshop, I plan to build myself a big bench and my storage.

my main question is tools. what ones do you recommend and what source?

I have some nice Marple chisels, Marking gauges, block plane, straight edges and a cheap tenon saw(wilko if im not mistaken! lol)

iv got a nice Stanley #4 coming, as well as a plough plane. my next thing is a nice set of saws.... what do people recommend?

- Buy second hand traditional saw off e-bay maybe in need of sharpening.
- Buy new style(plastic handle, etc..) semi decent(not cheap!) rip/panel saw and a nice tenon saw
- Buy a new traditional saw such as "Spear & Jackson Traditional Brass Back Tenon Saw"

I'm thinking about buying some winding sticks instead of making them just yet..

What other hand tools do you recommend?

Thanks for the hopeful advice!

Tom.

 

[RossJarvis]

Personally I find a 5 1/2 Jack Plane, a Record 311 and a low angle block plane cover most planing options. For everything else it really depends on what you do, there's no cover-all options as wood-bashing is so varied. Hard-point saws (particularly on offer) are generally better than other options apart from a good re-sharpenable rip saw. If you're likely to be cutting a fair amount of sheet material, a track saw is good and Mafell "cross cut saws" plus rails are the business, if money is no option.

As I say, the tools will really depend on what you end up doing.

Oh yes, a good combo-square is a must, get a PEC carpenters square if you can find one.

 

[Petey83]

The Veritas saws are worth looking at and you can have the smaller Rip and Crosscut saws for under £85 - £90 the pair

http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-cros ... saw-950978
http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-rip- ... saw-950979

Axminster are on back order but they can be had for for roughly the same prices elsewhere. They are not the size of full on tenon saws but can do a lot up to mid sizes jobs and would be perfect size for box making (i've used them for this task). You can then see if you have a need to up size to bigger saws in future if you find a project that requires them.

not sure if these are outside your budget but IMO they offer good value for money and quality.

If you are doing boxes you will also want to consider a dovetail saw of some variety - gentleman's saw, open pistol grip type or a Japanese style saw.

I personally have a very nice Japanese style saw i got from David Barron along with his excellent magnetic dovetail guide.

If you do want a dovetail saw as well i have an unused one of these http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Pax ... tml#SID=36 that you can have for the price of a couple of pints (London prices )

 

[TornUp]

If you're likely to be cutting a fair amount of sheet material, a track saw is good and Mafell "cross cut saws" plus rails are the business, if money is no option.

I have a small circular saw and a home made "track" for it. however as mentioned, im trying to move away from power tools unless i have to. also, im only really intrested in working with solid wood and not sheet ply wood... do you have any recommendations for a good "ripping" hand saw? what about somthing like this:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-fi ... s-ax869343
or do you recommended an older resharpen-able saw from ebay maybe?

Oh yes, a good combo-square is a must, get a PEC carpenters square if you can find one.

I have quite a nice combo-square.

The Veritas saws are worth looking at and you can have the smaller Rip and Crosscut saws for under £85 - £90 the pair

Yeah, iv been looking at them also too... they look nice although im not sure what the diffrence is between the two of them..... seem to be out of stock everywhere at the moment though!

If you are doing boxes you will also want to consider a dovetail saw of some variety - gentleman's saw, open pistol grip type or a Japanese style saw.

the varitas dovetail saw also looks nice... any views on that?

f you do want a dovetail saw as well i have an unused one of these http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Pax ... tml#SID=36 that you can have for the price of a couple of pints (London prices )

Tempting. let me do some calculations and priorities what i need to buy first and I will PM you



so, iv got:

my #4 plane(although potentially i might look at a low angle plan also)
my Chisels
my combo-square
marking gauges
sliding bevel

and i need:
sharpening bits for plane and chisels!
saws
-ripping
-tenon
-dovetail
hand router
winding sticks
misc other bits i cant remember!

additional help and guidance is welcomed!

thanks all!

Tom.

 

[Petey83]

one is a cross cut and the other a rip cut. You could double up the rip as a biggish dovetail saw but it's not ideal IMO.

i'd suggest sharpening kit should be very near the top of your list as dull chisels and planes are as much use as a power tool without electricity.

 

[Roughcut]

Another vote for the Veritas saws.

 

[heimlaga]

It is very easy to make winding sticks. If your budget is limited you shouldn't use any of it on stuff you can make yourself with minimal effort. If there is a scrap yeard nearby you may find some usable pieces of square tubing or you could just plane a pair of wooden sticks.

When it comes to saws you need to answer the question whether you will learn to sharpen saws properly or not. Myself I am too tight to throw away a hardpoint saw before it is worn to the point of total uselessness. This means that by using resharpenable saws and sharpening them myself I have a lot better saws than I would if I was using hardpoint saws.

For a rip saw I prefere an old style 26 or 28 inch handsaw with rather coarse teeth. Mine is an early 20th century 26 inch Disston number 12 purchased for 5 euros. Any old handsaw from any of the old time high end makers is by far the best ripsaw money can buy and they don't cost much either. If you don't think you will be able to sharpen it then such a saw is totally useless....... it all depends on what you think you are able to learn.

For tennon saw I prefere an old style 14 inch backsaw. I have two one filed rip and the other crosscut. Must people use 12 inch backsaws but I find it easier to saw straight and controlled with a slightly longer saw. That may have something to do with my very long arms.
Both mine are 1970-80-ies resharpenable Sandvik saws with home made handles. Purchased secondhand for a few euros apiece. They became a lot easier to steer with handles shaped to fit my hands instead of the chunky plastic handles they came with.

If you are going to sharpen you need a saw set and a file and a home made saw vice of some sort.
If you aren't going to sharpen all my thoughts are irrelevant for you. There is no "one size fits all" in woodworking.

For a router plane I have an old Stanley. One of my friends bought a new Veritas. I have tested his and in my oppinion it is a good deal better than mine. If you can find an old Stanley dirt cheap like I did just buy it because it will be good enough but if you need to spend some serious money I think a new veritas would give more value for the money.

Good Luck!

 

[undergroundhunter]

If there is one piece of advice I can offer it is this, Don't buy tools for the sake of it only buy when you need when you need it.

I really don't see the need for a low angle plane (unless its a block plane, an I don't use the 2 I've got), I am a real advocate for the No4 can do anything if correctly set, if you happen on something it cant plane then a card scraper if your friend.

My basic list for small projects (boxes and such) is this:

Chisels (you have these)
No4 plane
Small plough plane (record 43)
10" 15tip rip cut dovetail saw (no real need for crosscut teeth on a saw this this many TPI)
Card scrapers and burnisher (if working with hardwoods)
Sharpening gear of your choice (If budget is real tight a Norton double sided stone is good just add a home made strop)

Big saws are only really needed if you are prepping your own stock, if this is the case then I would also recommend a jack plane (wooden)
This will enable you to build boxes, anything else you will find out in time that you need or could do with.

Matt

 

[dzj]

Unless you buy the disposable type of saws, the issue of sharpening is going to come up regardless
whether you buy new or used.
I'd lean towards learning to do it by yourself, although they can be sent out to people who do this for a fee.

 

[TornUp]

one is a cross cut and the other a rip cut. You could double up the rip as a biggish dovetail saw but it's not ideal IMO.

Im still confused.... I understand the concept of Ripping and cross cutting.. (in regards to the direction of the cut in relation to the grain) however i don't really understand the difference between the Vertas Rip Saw and the Vertas Cross Cut saw..

i'd suggest sharpening kit should be very near the top of your list as dull chisels and planes are as much use as a power tool without electricity.

I Agree. Any recommendation on sharpening? Oil, Water? Diamond? Paul Sellers says he likes diamond. where is best place to get me a some diamonds?

Another vote for the Veritas saws.

I agree! Iv just spoken to Axminister(They have a live chat on their site now! i feel i can pester them more then i would if i had to ring up, and its more covert while tool shopping at work! :twisted:

t is very easy to make winding sticks. If your budget is limited you shouldn't use any of it on stuff you can make yourself with minimal effort. If there is a scrap yeard nearby you may find some usable pieces of square tubing or you could just plane a pair of wooden sticks.

Paul Sellers has 2 videos on it. will check them out and make some

For a rip saw I prefere an old style 26 or 28 inch handsaw with rather coarse teeth. Mine is an early 20th century 26 inch Disston number 12 purchased for 5 euros. Any old handsaw from any of the old time high end makers is by far the best ripsaw money can buy and they don't cost much either. If you don't think you will be able to sharpen it then such a saw is totally useless....... it all depends on what you think you are able to learn.

Any recommendations on any "Old Time High End Makers" i can pop into my Ebay search? What recommended makers if i want to buy new?

For tennon saw I prefere an old style 14 inch backsaw. I have two one filed rip and the other crosscut. Must people use 12 inch backsaws but I find it easier to saw straight and controlled with a slightly longer saw. That may have something to do with my very long arms.
Both mine are 1970-80-ies resharpenable Sandvik saws with home made handles. Purchased secondhand for a few euros apiece. They became a lot easier to steer with handles shaped to fit my hands instead of the chunky plastic handles they came with.

Sounds Good, however, I kinda want to hit the ground running, and although re-sharpening is something i want to be possible on my saws, i don't want to have to sharpen them before i can use them(Future saws i will buy to sharpen but my first 1-2 i want sharp from outset.) this is why im thinking of sticking with Veritas for my tenon saws.. as i asked before whats different about RIp and Crosscut?

For a router plane I have an old Stanley. One of my friends bought a new Veritas. I have tested his and in my oppinion it is a good deal better than mine. If you can find an old Stanley dirt cheap like I did just buy it because it will be good enough but if you need to spend some serious money I think a new veritas would give more value for the money.

Any recommendation of the Stanley model number(s)?

If there is one piece of advice I can offer it is this, Don't buy tools for the sake of it only buy when you need when you need it.

I agree, However i do need to "look into the future" a little bit. i have collected together about £250 to kit out my first set of hand tools, if i don't buy them all in now then the money will dwindle away.. lol

I really don't see the need for a low angle plane (unless its a block plane, an I don't use the 2 I've got), I am a real advocate for the No4 can do anything if correctly set, if you happen on something it cant plane then a card scraper if your friend.

I am the same, iv gone through all of Paul Sellers videos and he turns to his #4 every time(nearly).. Iv got myself a traditional(vintage'ish) #4 off ebay, need to check the sole for flatness and give the blade a good sharpen then it should be fine! (Sharpening fits into my question above! any recommendation on sharpening?)

Big saws are only really needed if you are prepping your own stock, if this is the case then I would also recommend a jack plane (wooden)

Umm... I want to build the Paul Sellers Bench, so i will be kind of preping stock... Jack plane is on my list, just want to get my Saws purchased and then see how much iv got left for more planes!

This will enable you to build boxes, anything else you will find out in time that you need or could do with.

Sweet!

Unless you buy the disposable type of saws, the issue of sharpening is going to come up regardless
whether you buy new or used.
I'd lean towards learning to do it by yourself, although they can be sent out to people who do this for a fee.

I defo want to attempt to learn to do it myself...

I think my saw list is going to be as follows:

new Vertas for Dovetails,Tenons(Rip or Crosscut?!)
New Gents saw(Because they look cool and they arn't that expensive for a nice High # TPI)
Ebay find Big panel saw(for long ripping?)

I will also need a recommendation on Saw Files for resharpening.


Thanks Guys! Apologies if this post is really long! im picking it up quite quickly just need that final bit of guidance!

Tom!

 

[Roughcut]

one is a cross cut and the other a rip cut. You could double up the rip as a biggish dovetail saw but it's not ideal IMO.

Im still confused.... I understand the concept of Ripping and cross cutting.. (in regards to the direction of the cut in relation to the grain) however i don't really understand the difference between the Vertas Rip Saw and the Vertas Cross Cut saw..

i'd suggest sharpening kit should be very near the top of your list as dull chisels and planes are as much use as a power tool without electricity.

I Agree. Any recommendation on sharpening? Oil, Water? Diamond? Paul Sellers says he likes diamond. where is best place to get me a some diamonds?

Another vote for the Veritas saws.

I agree! Iv just spoken to Axminister(They have a live chat on their site now! i feel i can pester them more then i would if i had to ring up, and its more covert while tool shopping at work! :twisted:

t is very easy to make winding sticks. If your budget is limited you shouldn't use any of it on stuff you can make yourself with minimal effort. If there is a scrap yeard nearby you may find some usable pieces of square tubing or you could just plane a pair of wooden sticks.

Paul Sellers has 2 videos on it. will check them out and make some

For a rip saw I prefere an old style 26 or 28 inch handsaw with rather coarse teeth. Mine is an early 20th century 26 inch Disston number 12 purchased for 5 euros. Any old handsaw from any of the old time high end makers is by far the best ripsaw money can buy and they don't cost much either. If you don't think you will be able to sharpen it then such a saw is totally useless....... it all depends on what you think you are able to learn.

Any recommendations on any "Old Time High End Makers" i can pop into my Ebay search? What recommended makers if i want to buy new?

For tennon saw I prefere an old style 14 inch backsaw. I have two one filed rip and the other crosscut. Must people use 12 inch backsaws but I find it easier to saw straight and controlled with a slightly longer saw. That may have something to do with my very long arms.
Both mine are 1970-80-ies resharpenable Sandvik saws with home made handles. Purchased secondhand for a few euros apiece. They became a lot easier to steer with handles shaped to fit my hands instead of the chunky plastic handles they came with.

Sounds Good, however, I kinda want to hit the ground running, and although re-sharpening is something i want to be possible on my saws, i don't want to have to sharpen them before i can use them(Future saws i will buy to sharpen but my first 1-2 i want sharp from outset.) this is why im thinking of sticking with Veritas for my tenon saws.. as i asked before whats different about RIp and Crosscut?

For a router plane I have an old Stanley. One of my friends bought a new Veritas. I have tested his and in my oppinion it is a good deal better than mine. If you can find an old Stanley dirt cheap like I did just buy it because it will be good enough but if you need to spend some serious money I think a new veritas would give more value for the money.

Any recommendation of the Stanley model number(s)?

If there is one piece of advice I can offer it is this, Don't buy tools for the sake of it only buy when you need when you need it.

I agree, However i do need to "look into the future" a little bit. i have collected together about £250 to kit out my first set of hand tools, if i don't buy them all in now then the money will dwindle away.. lol

I really don't see the need for a low angle plane (unless its a block plane, an I don't use the 2 I've got), I am a real advocate for the No4 can do anything if correctly set, if you happen on something it cant plane then a card scraper if your friend.

I am the same, iv gone through all of Paul Sellers videos and he turns to his #4 every time(nearly).. Iv got myself a traditional(vintage'ish) #4 off ebay, need to check the sole for flatness and give the blade a good sharpen then it should be fine! (Sharpening fits into my question above! any recommendation on sharpening?)

Big saws are only really needed if you are prepping your own stock, if this is the case then I would also recommend a jack plane (wooden)

Umm... I want to build the Paul Sellers Bench, so i will be kind of preping stock... Jack plane is on my list, just want to get my Saws purchased and then see how much iv got left for more planes!

This will enable you to build boxes, anything else you will find out in time that you need or could do with.

Sweet!

Unless you buy the disposable type of saws, the issue of sharpening is going to come up regardless
whether you buy new or used.
I'd lean towards learning to do it by yourself, although they can be sent out to people who do this for a fee.

I defo want to attempt to learn to do it myself...

I think my saw list is going to be as follows:

new Vertas for Dovetails,Tenons(Rip or Crosscut?!)
New Gents saw(Because they look cool and they arn't that expensive for a nice High # TPI)
Ebay find Big panel saw(for long ripping?)

I will also need a recommendation on Saw Files for resharpening.


Thanks Guys! Apologies if this post is really long! im picking it up quite quickly just need that final bit of guidance!

Tom!

As I understand it a cross cut saw will do both cross and rip cuts but will be slower ripping than a purpose filed rip saw.
And rip saws are not great for cross cutting.
So ideally have both, but if budget dictates the cross cut saw should be the first choice.

 

[xraymtb]

The Veritas Rip vs Crosscut saw is down to the way the teeth are set and sharpened. Otherwise I believe they are the same saw (but you wouldn't want to continually reset and file the teeth hence why you want two).

As for sharpening, that's a can of worms but there is a diamond stone on eBay for a fiver at the moment that some have found to have coarse and fine sides - would be a good place to start.

 

[undergroundhunter]

OK to add workbench building tools to my list,

A jack plane (no5 or a wooden plane)
A panel saw (10tip rip will do)
Straight edge (home made is fine)

You really don't need many tools at all to get started. I think Paul does all the workbench with a No4 from memory, although flattening the top will be easier with a 5.

Matt

 

[undergroundhunter]

If there is one piece of advice I can offer it is this, Don't buy tools for the sake of it only buy when you need when you need it.

I agree, However i do need to "look into the future" a little bit. i have collected together about £250 to kit out my first set of hand tools, if i don't buy them all in now then the money will dwindle away.. lol

I really don't see the need for a low angle plane (unless its a block plane, an I don't use the 2 I've got), I am a real advocate for the No4 can do anything if correctly set, if you happen on something it cant plane then a card scraper if your friend.

I am the same, iv gone through all of Paul Sellers videos and he turns to his #4 every time(nearly).. Iv got myself a traditional(vintage'ish) #4 off ebay, need to check the sole for flatness and give the blade a good sharpen then it should be fine! (Sharpening fits into my question above! any recommendation on sharpening?)

Big saws are only really needed if you are prepping your own stock, if this is the case then I would also recommend a jack plane (wooden)

Umm... I want to build the Paul Sellers Bench, so i will be kind of preping stock... Jack plane is on my list, just want to get my Saws purchased and then see how much iv got left for more planes!

Tom![/quote]

I use diamonds to sharpen but they will rally eat into your budget. I would just buy a norton combination stone like this http://goo.gl/G29Bwi, this will work just fine and is cheap as chips compared to diamonds. All you will need to do is make a strop and use either honing compound or autosol.

All my saws came from eBay (for less then £10) but I invested the time and a little money into learning how to sharpen them, for now I would use a hardpoint saw, this will get your bench built. This way you can keep an eye on eBay to get a good one and learn how to sharpen saws in your own time instead of trying to rush it just to get the bench built.

Matt