Hand tool: sharpening and general use questions

[Dino]

I've recently bought a used spokeshave and hand plane, the first I've ever used, as well as some used chisels.

I'm looking for some sharpening tips as well as some general usage tips as when I cut with them they are not taking the wood off "cleanly" - the shavings are tearing off rather than being shaven off.

Am I sharpening at the wrong angle? Am I not using a high enough grit? (I have a 600 grit diamond sharpening stone).

Thanks.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Uh-oh.........[runs for cover].

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

seriously though. Plane iron and chisels you're best sharpening at 25 degrees ie text book. You could then if you wanted hone a very small 30 degree secondary bevel to reduce future sharpening marathons and I would personally recommend you do because regrinding the whole bevel is not my idea of a fun Sunday morning.

You could start practising doing it by hand on a stone which will be tough to start with but great long term or you could buy a simple mechanical jig which holds the blade at the correct angle on the stone (I recommend you do this).

 

[Spindle]

Hi

If you use the search function on here there's a wealth of information with regard to sharpening - set aside a few hours and absorb the collected knowledge.

Regards Mick

 

[Dino]

Sorry, I realise it was a repeat post in terms of general sharpening but I was more curious where exactly I was going wrong.

Is the wood tearing because I have the angle on the plane set badly? Is it because the angle I have sharpened the iron is bad? Or is it because I have not sharpened to a high enough grit?

Also Bob I have a bench grinder, could I utilise this in the way you described?

 

[Racers]

Is the wood tearing because I have the angle on the plane set badly? Is it because the angle I have sharpened the iron is bad? Or is it because I have not sharpened to a high enough grit?

Probably combination of all three, you need a finer grit stone or have a look at Scary Sharp method of sharpening its very cheap method, the main thing with different ways of sharpening is to find one you like and stick with it.

You could also be plaining the wood the wrong way round you need to cut with the grain.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

I'd stick with your 600 grit, sharpen at 30º, do it freehand, keep testing the results and you'll get there sooner or later.
Avoid bench grindstones altogether. Avoid flattening, polishing, spending money and the various fashions of modern sharpening.
Then when you know you can do it start looking at other options such as finer stones.
Your spokeshave blade is easier to hold in a saw kerf in a scrap of wood.
For a beginner the best way to get started is on the edge of thin boards. Easiest to plane and you can see what's going on as the shavings emerge through the mouth.
Practice practice - and waste some wood. Anything will do for practice, you don't have to spoil something good.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Chances are if its tearing then you are cutting against the grain, try turning it around. And don't worry about using a jig to get the right angle on your bevel! (There's no shame in that)

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Sorry, I realise it was a repeat post in terms of general sharpening but I was more curious where exactly I was going wrong.

Is the wood tearing because I have the angle on the plane set badly? Is it because the angle I have sharpened the iron is bad? Or is it because I have not sharpened to a high enough grit?

Also Bob I have a bench grinder, could I utilise this in the way you described?

Hi Dino

In theory you could use your bench grinder to speed things up but.....and its a big but......the chances of things going wrong happen very fast. Consequently, as you move into the realm of grinders, you also tend to move into the world of jigs which help to keep your tool presented at a consistent angle to the sharpening medium, whether that's a sanding belt (linisher style) or a grinding wheel. The reason I made the joke of running for cover is that sharpening is a very wide topic and it illicits some of the most "heels dug in" and entrenched belief systems in the entire wood working community. Very few people have in actual fact really tried ALL the different methods and so they tend to promote and defend the one which works for their circumstances. So it tends to lead to rather heated discussion.

The debate tends to pivot around one camp being the "do it the traditional way by hand with no help and develop your inner wood workers co-ordination and skill" versus the "spend several hundred on a commercial grinder plus jigs system and have technology do it for you". There are also various shades of grey between those two ends of the spectrum.

The 64,000 dollar question is of course "What's right for you"?

If you have a tendency towards using technology to speed things up then I would research jigs, if you have a tendency to enjoy developing skills over a period of time and prefer the traditional then persevere with by hand only bevel rubbing on stones. There is nothing wrong with a 600 grit finish on a plane iron, its easily enough to be sharp enough to plane very fine shavings. People will argue you need a 3000 grit Japanese water stone....and sure that will give a fabulously polished edge but 600 grit will certainly deliver a fine enough edge for most jobs on an amateur level.

The simplest jig to use on your existing grinder is a wooden platform that you make yourself that when the chisel/plan iron is presented to the wheel, it cuts your preferred angle. Jacob recommends 30 deg, personally I also like 30 but with a primary bevel of 25 and a small secondary bevel of 30 to make the following sharpenings easier and faster. The point is you can use your grinder if you can achieve a consistent bevel facet with a known angle. Watch the heat build up like a hawk though or you'll draw the temper of the steel and it won't hold an edge (when it goes blue).

Hope that helps.

Edit: I also would pay close attention to the posters advising you to scrutinise grain direction because its entirely possible that its only your technique that's at fault and the not the iron at all. Do some experiments with chiselling one way then another to see how the different grain directions affect the cut. Also pare across the grain as well as with it to see how that goes. Trawl through google for David Charlesworth or better yet buy his DVD's, he's taken careful use of the chisel to another level.

 

[Jacob]

The point of sticking with what you have is that simple freehand sharpening is a very valuable basic skill, which every beginner should get to grips with from the start.
It's cheap, quick, easy, effective.
Using a bench grinder effectively is less easy for a beginner, especially with thin blades.

 

[Dino]

The bench grinder was just a question because I happen to have one (for buffering) and using a jig was mentioned. I think I would prefer to learn doing it by hand.

Thank you all very much for the informative posts. I will try turning the wood and going with the grain but I am almost certain I was going with the grain and not against it, but I can't be sure since it might mean something different to what I think it means.

 

[Corneel]

Do you have the bevel down? And the capiron set back from the edge so you don't accidentally plane with the capiron?

 

[Dino]

Yes, I think so, the planes are assembled correctly. Somehow I misread capiron as capricorn and was very very confused for a moment.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

If you have a grindstone, with some grinding wheels, you might as well use it. It is not for getting the final edge that you actually plane with, but for removing previous honing when it leaves a bevel that is too wide to conveniently and quickly re hone. If you grind a 25 degree bevel, almost right to the edge, this will leave a little line of untouched metal that can be quickly brought to sharp on the oilstone. Repeat these honings as and when needed, until it seems you are taking too long to do it on the stone, then go back to the grinder to start the process again. Generally you might get 6-8 honings before regrinding, so regrinding will not be that often, really. This is a fairly classic way to do it, and most people here do it this way or a close variation thereof.

Mike.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Dino, you may find investing a few pounds in a good book such as 'The Essential Woodworker' by Robert Wearing to be worthwhile. He's very good on the basics of setting up and using planes, and the techniques to square up wood with them. He then goes on to introduce basic cabinetmaking techniques such as mortice and tenon frames (such as stools and small tables) and carcase work, and covers lots of useful bits and pieces like how to fit hinges. He writes in a very clear and concise style, with many simple but clear diagrams. You can obtain the book here - http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... Press.html - you may have to scroll down the page a bit to find it.

PS - Mike (Woodbrains) in the post above outlines the sharpening method that I use (pretty much). It's quick and effective when you get used to it, but if you feel a different technique would suit you better that's fine. You'll have gathered by now that sharpening can be a rather contentious issue; there are one or two peope who rather take the approach that their method is best, and you're an idiot if you don't follow them. Read about the subject a bit, see what methods are out there (Youtube has many videos of various methods), then make your own mind up! Whatever method you choose will need a bit of practice to become comfortable and familiar; stick with it for a bit and you'll get there!

 

[Dino]

I've youtubed a lot of techniques before I even attempted it. I'm planning on getting a few books on woodturning / carving so this can be added to the list. Thanks very much.

 

[swb58]

I'm a big believer in starting off with the basics and with the simplest tools required. I used to think I needed a machine for everything but I've since changed my mind.
There's nothing like doing a job in what might be described as an old fashioned way, it gives you a much better understanding of what you're doing.

Just a thought about the tools that you have bought . . . can you get them to someone who has had experience in this field and can tell you what you can reasonably expect from them. There is a massive difference between grades of chisel for example, some you can sharpen quickly, some won't achieve a decent edge, ever.

 

[Corneel]

This is a good website about sharpening. The writer uses oilstones, but it works just as well with waterstones or sandpaper. I use more or less the same technique.
http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html

Like the others say, don't delve too much into the sharpening theory. Practice is much more important.

 

[Jacob]

Hello,

If you have a grindstone, with some grinding wheels, you might as well use it. It is not for getting the final edge that you actually plane with, but for removing previous honing when it leaves a bevel that is too wide to conveniently and quickly re hone. If you grind a 25 degree bevel, almost right to the edge, this will leave a little line of untouched metal that can be quickly brought to sharp on the oilstone. Repeat these honings as and when needed, until it seems you are taking too long to do it on the stone, then go back to the grinder to start the process again. Generally you might get 6-8 honings before regrinding, so regrinding will not be that often, really. This is a fairly classic way to do it, and most people here do it this way or a close variation thereof.

Mike.

Not classic at all, just lazy.
I was taught that the (small) bench grindstone was the kiss of death and to be avoided. Big water dipped ones OK but small strictly not.
Some old tools turn up looking like they've been nibbled by rats - that's the small bench grindstone effect, plus the softening due to overheating.
Also they remove metal too fast from thin blades and shorten their life dramatically. Thin blades are really easy freehand, why bother with any other method?

 

[Dino]

I think I'll work on getting to do it by hand. A user said in another thread that I'd need a way to sharpen my gouges and chisels for woodturning, would I not be able to do these by hand as wel or do they require a machine too?