Hammer machines

[gwr]

Hi can anyone who has used the hammer N4400 bandsaw and/or A3-31 PT with either straight knives or spiral cutter please let me know how you find the quality for the price you paid.
Any pros or cons over other makes of machines. Thanks

 

[mbartlett99]

Well I've got the N4400 - along with quite a few folks here. Sadly I've hardly had chance to use it though. DEFINITELY worth waiting for their 'sale' when they get rid of the demo machines - I saved nearly 30%. Its seems like a solid unit, well finished etc but I'll leave it to more experienced folk. A few observations though;

My table was not flat - and they had no intention of sorting it
Their shipping is extortionate
For heavens sake put the wheels on before you lift into position
No measurements on fence guide
Non standard mitre slot

 

[custard]

I've got an N4400. I'm a full time furniture maker and it's been used on a daily basis for about six years. I regularly use it to cut veneers and laminations, often in difficult tropical timbers.

It works fine and I'm happy enough with it. Is it perfect? Not really.

There's a bit more flex on the upper guides and blade guard than I'd ideally like, but I reliably get 1mm thick veneers so maybe I shouldn't be such a fusspot! The mitre slot is just weird, non standard and pretty spindly, but as I've never used it and probably never will that's no hardship. Good job really as the supplied mitre fence was rubbish. There's only one dust extraction vent, but it's still the cleanest bandsaw I've ever used, so either it's in exactly the right place or more likely I've massively over egged my extraction system. More seriously, it uses Felder's proprietary extraction dimensions, so you're further locked into their kit. The tension gauge isn't very accurate (are any of them?), I checked it against a proper tension meter and it overstates the tension.

On the positive side they fitted the mounts for Felder extension tables to the machine so I can use the extension tables from my Felder machinery on the bandsaw, useful for the occasional times when I've resawn down beams. Miraculously there was no big bill.

Bandsaws aren't very complex machines, so once you spend more than a certain amount and you're assured of getting reliable electrics, decent bearings, and a sturdy frame; well after that they're all much of a muchness.

 

[Chip shop]

I have both machines and I don't remember having any real problems with either.

I really like the Felder / Hammer blade change system on the plane. The bandsaw does its job but I'm not the biggest fan of the top guide system, it always seems a little wonky to me. I've never used the mitre slot so didn't even know it was non-standard.

All in all, I have no regrets buying the kit (other than I couldn't afford Felder at the time).

Just one thing, if and when you take delivery of the new gear...change your mobile number

Edit: I meant to mention I didn't go for the spiral cutter on the plane due to a thread I read on Woodwork UK.

Edit again: It was this thread http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... l&start=40

 

[decas]

I have the N4400 and the A3-31 (standard cutter block) as part of a C3-31 . Had the bandsaw for 4-5 years and the combo for 10+ years. No complaints, they have done everything I have asked of them and continue to do so.
Dave

 

[gwr]

Thank you for the feedback on your experience with these machines. I have been given a price of nearly 7K for both machines saying this is their best possible price.

I wouldn't mind spending that on them if they were a lot better than startrite/ Axminster/ Record and so on but after much reading I'm now not so convinced i can justify that price.Are they are worth roughly double the price of machines I first had in mind. Startrite sd31 or Axminster ap129pt with spiral block and sabre 450 or startrite 403. I really want to get this right first time and like the idea of 5 year warranty with Record startrite, can't see anywhere on how long fielder/Hammer is.

Thanks again for the input

 

[Chip shop]

I think Hammer gear is OK, but a little overpriced. I've heard positive things said about modern Startrite gear, but, as I understand it, that is aimed at Schools.

It might be worth looking at the SCM /MiniMax range. I'm currently considering one of these https://www.scmgroup.com/en_GB/scmwood/ ... -st-1g.665

 

[gwr]

Thanks chip shop I have looked at the scm/ Minimax machines made in Italy and I think I recal seeing the new startrite machines are also made it Italy I wonder if it could possibly be the same factory. Maybe I'm wrong about startrite being made in italy I'm sure someone here will know.
I would feel more comfortable buying a European machine than Chinese mainly for getting spares in the future hopefully distant future. Still can't make my mind up but I have still got a few weeks to decide.
My head hurts (hammer)

 

[custard]

I've heard positive things said about modern Startrite gear, but, as I understand it, that is aimed at Schools.

I don't think schools buy much woodworking machinery these days, more's the pity. The Startrite 352 bandsaw used to be a mainstay of school woodworking departments, and Startrite tried to be a bit ahead of the curve when it came to fitting safety devices in order to maximise their school credentials.

My inclination would be to economise a little on the bandsaw, but tip the savings into the P/T budget. There's just a lot more complexity in a P/T than in a bandsaw. Once you get above the price level of the discount bandsaws, with all their corner cutting, you don't get much additional benefit by spending yet more. I doubt I'd see a lot of practical difference if I swapped my Hammer N4400 for a Record Sabre or a used Startrite.

However, P/T's aren't like that. As you climb the price curve you keep getting additional benefits for quite some time. You've already mentioned spiral blocks, I've got a Felder P/T with a four knife block, it's a nice machine, but the latest generation spiral blocks would be nicer still! I'd also mention a digital read out for the thicknesser, if you're producing precision furniture components you'll find that pretty useful. And of course a P/T has a lot more in the way of basic engineering than a bandsaw, therefore you're more likely to see and feel the results of money being invested in the underlying quality of a P/T.

 

[Peter Sefton]

The Hammer 4400 is an excellent machine and the planer is very good although I am not over the moon about the fence on the surfacer.

SCM are very good but in my experience they don't offer much in single phase. When I was buying a new planer for the school I was keen on the SCM after having them before in larger workshops but the single phase SCM planer I wanted was only 1.5 HP compared to the Felder 4 HP machine. A very similar build quality but a toy of a motor, game over for me.

Some of the new Startrite kit is looking promising, when I was in the US recently I was told that Record Power was now owned by Rikon. The bandsaws do have some of the same components, in fact the the Sabre I looked at had Rikon badge on the back.

Cheers Peter

 

[custard]

I've often wondered why the Hammer N4400 has quite such a massive motor? Maybe it was cheaper to just use the motor from a much bigger machine rather than spec a completely new unit? That doesn't sound particularly plausible, but I can't think of any other explanation.

The 3.5HP motor in the N4400 is far bigger than any comparable machine that I've seen. For example the N3800 has a 2HP motor, even though both bandsaws have exactly the same cutting height and therefore could be subject to the same cutting work loads.

Just seems odd.