Glue in the winter...

[L Harding]

Whether this be a myth or just unproved theory ive heard it thrown around a bit, so thought i would ask here to see...

Does storing your glue (titebond or standard PVA) in a cold/unheated workshop somehow affect it, and mean it is therefore usless. Or at least not as strong as it was once - regardless of weather you then warm the workshop up for when you are using the glue and want it to cure (the the min plus 10oc titebond requires)?

 

[PeterBassett]

My glue (white PVA) was frozen solid when I last went to use it. I brought it inside and put it under the stairs.

Used it a couple of days later and it was fine, just the same as it has always been as far as I can tell.

EDIT: I must add that once my piece was clamped up, I brought it inside to cure in the warmth of the house, not outside in the 2 celcius garage.

 

[2tone]

I must say that this is a question i've always seeked advice on, I had heard the same " once exposed to extreme temperatures it renders the glue useless"

I live in the alps where we can expect -20 sometimes, recently I had one of those days when everything in the van/workshop froze - i'm not sure if i trust re-using the glues again. the paints in my workshop all froze. once thon out the waterbased stains look and feel like soggy weetabix.

Now! I keep all batteries, glues in a holdall and put them in the house every night. I'm a bit funny about asking a client for a bucket of hot water to defrost everything.

I wouldn't like to have to re-do all the good work i've done... Maybe solvent based glues are OK, I had no problem with the gripfill.

 

[2tone]

:?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Best to look on the bottle and see what it says - manufacturers usually give a recommendation about minumum temperature for storage and use. In my experience, most PVA glues should not be stored at less than about 5 degrees centigrade or they will separate and are then useless. Best to store adhesives in the house and after glueing up bring the piece indoors if it's cold in the workshop.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[devonwoody]

Also I wouldnt purchase any adhesives before June, buying earlier means they have been in a cold warehouse perhaps, so I have enough left over from last year stored in the home

 

[Mr T]

hi

Sometimes just bringing the piece into the house after clamping up may not be enough. If the pieces you are gluing and the glue itself are all below the required temperature it could take some time in the house before they come up to that temperature and they may have set in the meantime, but the strength may be compromised.

You can usually tell with PVA's when they have set at an inadequate temperature as the squeeze out appears "chalky".

Chris

 

[wobblycogs]

I suffered exactly the problem Mr T described this winter. I glued up in a very cold workshop then carried the piece through to the kitchen. The glue set but it was milky rather than clear because the wood didn't warm up fast enough. In the glues defence it seemed perfectly strong enough for the task at hand but I whacked in a load of extra bracing in the piece just to make sure

 

[xraymtb]

I've never heard this but now I have, I'm going to have to check the shed.

Does anyone know if glue that has been subject to these temperatures (it reached -14 outside one night) is useable or is it only fit for the bin?

 

[woodbloke]

I've never heard this but now I have, I'm going to have to check the shed.

Does anyone know if glue that has been subject to these temperatures (it reached -14 outside one night) is useable or is it only fit for the bin?

I'd be inclined to ditch it...it's not worth the risk if you happen to be gluing something important - Rob

 

[wobblycogs]

I believe I got lucky, although my glue got cold I'm confident it never froze and it seems to be ok.

I think the problem is probably that as it thaws / freezes some components of the glue melt / freeze before others which leads to separation (e.g. the frozen sections float or sink) and once separated it can't be recombined.

From what others have said there might even be some sort of setting taking place probably because the solvent (water) froze and increased the concentration of the other constituents.

 

[devonwoody]

There used to be a member here that worked with a firm of adhesive manufacturers.
Perhaps a search of adhesives might turn up one of his posts and see if he is still active.

 

[newt]

Why not just do a test, glue a couple of pieces wait 24hr and then give it a bash or two. I would have thought if the quality was significantly compromised it would fail a reasonable test. I think with the white PVA if it does not dry clear there is something wrong.

 

[wobblycogs]

That's a reasonable first pass at a test but it doesn't say much about the long term effects on the glue. It might be strong just after gluing but a year or two down the road it coult just fall to bits.

I actually suspect that modern glues are so strong that even if mistreatment causes them to be a fraction of their original strength, 99% of the time we wouldn't notice. Trouble is that the 1% of the time you really need the strength duff glue is going to let you down.

 

[superunknown]

I had some evo-stick PVA freeze last year and it was useless after that. I also keep titebond out in the workshop and that's always been fine in the cold.

 

[lurker]

This is one reason I never buy glue in bulk

I tend to buy the smallest pot. Then I date them with a felt tip & the "stock" live in the house.
By the way -Wilkos is by far the cheapest place for Evostick