Garden gate

[johnfarris]

Afternoon everyone

I am in the process of drawing some plans for a gate I intend to make. Figured out most of it apart from the head joints and were the arched head meets the stiles. I am not sure what joints to use. I have spoken to a gate manufacture who has told me he "dowls the head to the stiles"

Can any one tell me what the best way of doing this is?

Thanks in advance

John


Edited for clarity

 

[will1983]

I would either do a bridal joint like you have drawn or cut a pair of matching mortices and fit a loose tenon like you have detailed in the centre.

The loose tenons i would make oversized and then trim back once the glue had set. For maximum strength I would also orientate the loose tenons so the grain bisects the joint rather than parallel to the grain in either the stile or head.

 

[Inspector]

If it were mine I would make the styles and arched head wider, say 100mm to 120mm, to give you a greater glueing surface and to me it's more visually appealing.

I don't see a rail on the bottom. What keeps it from spreading or are there other cross pieces and braces on the other side?

Pete

 

[will1983]

I hadn't noticed before but it looks like the header varies in width? Is this intentional?

I would have to keep it all the same width for my own sanity (read; OCD).
Making that pair of components would be a good excuse for making a circle cutting jig for your router too.

 

[johnfarris]

If it were mine I would make the styles and arched head wider, say 100mm to 120mm, to give you a greater glueing surface and to me it's more visually appealing.

I don't see a rail on the bottom. What keeps it from spreading or are there other cross pieces and braces on the other side?

Pete

Hello thanks for replying
120mm wide stiles would increase the chances of cupping. Yes their is a bottom rail

 

[johnfarris]

I hadn't noticed before but it looks like the header varies in width? Is this intentional?

I would have to keep it all the same width for my own sanity (read; OCD).
Making that pair of components would be a good excuse for making a circle cutting jig for your router too.

The header does not vary

 

[deema]

The head I would make by laminating either two or three layers. If it’s to be painted it doesn’t matter, if it’s to be oiled / varnished I would always make it using three layers. With three layers you get the same joint appearance on both sides. The top layer should be two pieces butted at 12 o clock. The second or middle layer should be three pieces joined at 10:30 and 2:30. The third layer is the same as the top. Three layers also helps to ensure that you avoid any twist or bow (virtually) completely as the stack is balanced. If using slab sawn wood, make sure you orientate the growth rings opposing each other on the two layers or on the top and bottom layers in three ply. With three layers you can also ‘build’ in the mortise avoiding an operation. Just cut the middle layer to affect the mortice.

I make the pieces over size and then screw them together in the waste whilst it’s gluing up. This makes alignment and gluing far easier. You initially screw it tigether dry to get the fit right. If any joints aren’t ‘perfect’ you just saw down the joint, unscrew and realign and screw down again to get a perfect fit. I use Cascamite, long open times, and is completely water proof.

You need to make a template of the curve, (6 or 9mm ply / MDF) and after rough cutting the laminated top rail to approximate size, route or spindle mould to exact size using the template. I leave the ends long so I can screw the template to them. A track saw, or similar makes cutting the ends to length easy (I actually use a sliding table saw). Using the template adjusted, route or spindle mould a rebate to take the boarding.

If your using ‘cheap wood’ I would laminate the two styles again aligning growth rings opposing each other. You can again cut the motices if you like before gluing together. It’s just quicker with a hand saw and a chisel than using a mortise chisel afterwards.

I raise the bottom rail up about 2 inches off the bottom to help reduce rot / allow for fitting.

All the rail tops need to be chamfered at a minimum of 9 degrees. Make sure you allow for this when considering your mortice and tenon joints. Normally the tenons on the rails are actually half laps as the boarding takes up the ‘other third’ of a normal tenon.

Boarding should be tongue and groove. Paint or finish the tongues and groves before assembly. Paint / finish the rails and rebates before applying the boarding.

The central board should be ideally grooved on both sides. The reason for this is that should the gate need subsequent repair who ever is doing it will bless you as getting the boards off is far easier. Traditionally each board would be nailed on each rail and in the Rebate by a single nail positioned centrally in the plank. I actually usually use more in case any nails rot through and the planks come loose.

Here is a gate I knocked up that’s similar to yours. It had a double laminated head. You can see the template in the background. The workshops a mess as I’d just moved in when this was made / photo taken.

 

[deema]

Here’s a gate I was asked to repair, scarf both styles. (It would have been quicker to make a new gate!) It shows how not to plank a door / gate IMO. There are an even number of boards rather than odd which is far more pleasing aesthetically. It was tongue and grooved correctly allowing me to remove just one plank on either side. The head had been made with two layers.

 

[deema]

Something to consider would be arching the frame as well as the gate. It will look far better than just two jambs either side.

 

[johnfarris]

Hello deema
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post I think ive got the general idea of what you have posted.
Looking at the picture below does that look about right?. I am thinking that i might have to widen the stiles to create a a wider tenon what do you think.

John

 

[deema]

Yep, you’ve got it. I would use as a minimum 100mm wide styles and seven boards for cladding. Gates are subject to banging shut, the more rigid the frame the better it will last. Also consider you will aesthetically loose rail to the rebate for the boarding and when the gates closed in the rebate of the gate posts.

I also like to put a top rail just under the arch for which I normally use dowels to joint. The reason for dowels is to ensure I don’t weaken the tenon that secures the arch.

 

[johnnyb]

i love these replies btw. if i was making cheap and softwood and with a truncated radius i would imagine making the gate square with a good rail under the arch and add the arch as a decorative thing. ie glue up bandsaw arch and smooth rebate etc.
it could then be attached using chunky screws. the shallower the arch the better.