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Frustrating mitres....

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wcndave

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I have made some lengths of nice figured maple with sapele and walnut trim to make some picture frames, however have had a frustrating day trying to cut the mitres for them.

Using my clarke disc sander I can get them to within 2 deg, as the aluminium table moves too much. Decided to use table saw, however the slop in the mitre gives me also a 1 to 2 deg level of accuracy.

Started to make a sled, and started with a 90deg cross cut, however the 8mm by 14mm sizes of the scheppach ts 2010 mean even cutting the runners on there is too dangerous...sharpened a plane nicely and made a shooting board, however it just digs in too much when cutting, so am at a loss how to cut decent fitting mitres...

I feel i need to get a mitre saw however has to be a good one with a decently adjustustable angle. Is the axminster sms 10dc going to give me this, of just more setup headaches?
 

marcros

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is it a one off job? If you are doing from time to time, what about a guillotine cutter?
 

wcndave

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What's a guillotine cutter?

I need to cut 90deg a lot, and so far the sliding table and the ts is ok, however not great, as not only does the tables's mitre need to be at ninety, but the direction of travel has to be perfectly parallel too. The setup of the scheppach makes this ardious at best, and i get about 0.1 inch error over 12 inches best effort (after 8 hours of setting up).

Not being able to make a sled is therefore a pain.

I know the four cut callibrarion technique, however find it hard to even make the parts.

I think a mitre saw for 90deg cuts would be great if i can infact set it up to be very accurate.

45deg i do less often, however i would probably do more if i could.

Best option = make a decent sled, one for 90 and one for 45 (anyone know how to use a four cut technique for mitre sled?)
Second option = get a mitre saw. Have felt one is necessary, however was waiting to save for the kapex, if i get something now, has to be cheaper. Would want to be very accurate/adjustable for accuracy, however don't need bells ansdwhistles.

No cheap rubbish...

Also want to do panels, and 90 on larger pieces cannot be done with track saw, so need my table saw to handle it... That new ts (excalibur) is looking more likely every day, however, i also have a swmbo indoors...
 

Teckel

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You say you can get the mitre to within a few degrees of 45. What you do then is...make a jig that will hold the two pieces at 90 degrees and clamp them to this. Then kerf down between the two pieces with the finest toothed saw you have. Then you tidy up mitres with your sharp plane. And when your planing take your time and remove small amounts. Very little will have to come off anyway.
 

joez71

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How about using good old fashioned shooting board to tweak the final fit? Pretty simple to make and if you have a hand plane with a little heft and some scraps lying around you can probably make one for free.

Another bonus is the glass smooth cuts left by the handplane.

Theres a pretty good DVD on the subject called Precision Shooting Simplified by
David Charlesworth.

joez71
 

RogerP

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joez71":w1fmcxd3 said:
How about using good old fashioned shooting board to tweak the final fit? Pretty simple to make and if you have a hand plane with a little heft and some scraps lying around you can probably make one for free.

Another bonus is the glass smooth cuts left by the handplane.

Theres a pretty good DVD on the subject called Precision Shooting Simplified by
David Charlesworth.
joez71
It's definitely the way to go. Cut mitres with saw and then shoot them and you'll get perfectly fitting mitres every time - and quickly.
There's plenty of designs for shooting boards on the web - do a Google search.
 

wcndave

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These pieces are about two by 3/4.

I did try a shooting board, however my plane simply sticks in the piece, or chatters over the surface. Tried with a five and a seven plane that when used normally take perfect fine shavings.

I think my frustration came to a head when after trying three techniques nothing had worked, when in theory all should have. I really feel I ought to be able to cut reliably to ninety and forty five on TS.

This also arose after finding my new sorby patriot dedicated 33 chuck does not fit my 33 lathe! After waiting 3 weeks for international delivery, was just a bad day!

Today's a new one ;-)

I am reminded of the simpsons movie where bart says "This is the worst day of my life" and homer offers up the encouraging and philisophical, "so far"

:)
 

Harbo

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Sounds like you need a new plane?

A Shooting board should give excellent results?

Rod
 

Benchwayze

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Dave,

The reason you can't make a joint that is square is because you are probably resetting your mitre guide to make opposing 45 degree cuts. Yes?
Doing it this way means that any error is compounded and doubled.

Instead, take a piece of MDF that you know to be a square. (Say 9 inches square.)
Make a hardwood runner that fits your mitre slot exactly.

Fix the runner, diagonally to the square of MDF. (You need some means of clamping work to the guide, so a small fence on the MDF square helps. ) Place this new 'guide' in the mitre slot, so in effect, you have a diamond with one side at 45 deg to the saw.

Cut one side of the joint on the left hand side of the diamond.
Without resetting the improvised guide, cut the other side of the joint on the right hand side of the diamond. The resulting joint MUST fit at 90 degrees. (Even if you are out by say half a degree, the two angles added together will make 90 deg. and the joint will be square. (As long as the pieces are both exactly the same length.)

I had a small saw that wasn't suitable for a cross cut sled, or a mitre sled, so I used this idea. It's the same idea that is used on a Triton workcentre, and it does work.

However, no matter what you do, your mitre slot MUST be parallel with the blade. If it isn't, you will get 'creep' and the cuts will never be accurate whatever angle you try to cut. So if your saw needs a set-up, this is a good time to do it.

HTH :D
 

bugbear

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RogerP":angudwvq said:
It's definitely the way to go. Cut mitres with saw and then shoot them and you'll get perfectly fitting mitres every time - and quickly.
There's plenty of designs for shooting boards on the web - do a Google search.
Watch out for length - a well adjusted shooting board will give perfect angles, but if the opposing sides don't match in length, the joins still won't be gapless.

BugBear
 

bugbear

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wcndave":2h0t1orl said:
I did try a shooting board, however my plane simply sticks in the piece, or chatters over the surface. Tried with a five and a seven plane that when used normally take perfect fine shavings.
You might get advice on that over in handtools.

BugBear
 

scholar

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marcros":3rsfuyz4 said:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-mt1-mitre-trimmer-prod858421/

but capacity is limited to picture framing sizes


I bought one of these some years ago and have used it a lot for mouldings on panelled doors.

It is a delight to use - the shearing action leaves such a clean finish on the end grain - I have long forgotten the cost...

Cheers
 

Benchwayze

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scholar":24v08pja said:
marcros":24v08pja said:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-mt1-mitre-trimmer-prod858421/

but capacity is limited to picture framing sizes


I bought one of these some years ago and have used it a lot for mouldings on panelled doors.

It is a delight to use - the shearing action leaves such a clean finish on the end grain - I have long forgotten the cost...

Cheers
Quite agree.
I bought one umpteen years ago. But you still have to cut the section to be trimmed somewhere near the correct angle first. The operative word is 'trimmer', not 'cutter'. A Morso mitre-guillotine, on the other hand! Well... :D
 
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