Forum for proffesoonals?

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cornishjoinery

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Morning guys,

Does anyone know any forums dedicated to professional joiners or on here? Just after a place to talk about pricing, quoting tools, workshops etc.

Cheers
 
That's weird, I didn't think "proffesoonals" discussed pricing
"If you are building these for a client then you shouldn't be asking how to price things up" -Cornish joinery March 2017
 
Paddy Roxburgh":w6cm2jbq said:
That's weird, I didn't think "proffesoonals" discussed pricing
"If you are building these for a client then you shouldn't be asking how to price things up" -Cornish joinery March 2017
Nice find ! Lol

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It is true that some trades people don't know how to estimate jobs

After I retired [Landscape Gardener] an ex employee approached me to do estimates for work that he'd been offered
He could do the work reasonably well; but no idea how to estimate

Needless to say -- I declined the offer :)
 
ColeyS1":1uwqzlkn said:
Paddy Roxburgh":1uwqzlkn said:
That's weird, I didn't think "proffesoonals" discussed pricing
"If you are building these for a client then you shouldn't be asking how to price things up" -Cornish joinery March 2017
Nice find ! Lol

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I remembered it because it really irked me at the time. As a proffesoonal myself I find pricing to be by far the hardest thing in my job to get right. Indeed I often refuse to give fixed price, just giving an estimate and then charging for my time, as I'm in a niche market (boat repair and fit out) and have plenty of return customers people can take it or leave it.
 
cornishjoinery":hebcic6y said:
Morning guys,

Does anyone know any forums dedicated to professional joiners or on here? Just after a place to talk about pricing, quoting tools, workshops etc.

Cheers
Nope, never come across one - it’s pretty much why I started the podcast, tbh, to have a chat about all that stuff with someone else in the business.

Twitter’s quite handy, though it can take a little while to find a good group of bods to follow. Instagram, too.

Shame your original request for a ‘trade’ section fell on deaf ears a while back.

Cheers, Peter
 
Sorry for the OT but could I ask Paddy what fixings do you use for boat fit outs? Or is it only adhesives?

As for pricing up jobs, once you've been in business for a year or more you shouldn't have too much problems pricing up. That's my opinion

Peter - love the podcast with Gosforth Handyman and both your channels!
 
I was just about to recommend your's and Andy's podcast Peter. Been very enjoyable so far, keep it up
 
Kris the Handyman":33lz6gzw said:
Sorry for the OT but could I ask Paddy what fixings do you use for boat fit outs? Or is it only adhesives?

As for pricing up jobs, once you've been in business for a year or more you shouldn't have too much problems pricing up. That's my opinion
I run a dry dock on the river Lea mostly working on canal boats. I'm not quite sure what you mean by fixings, if I'm joining wood to steel (as I often am) I tap threads and use brass machine screws, for joinery I use joints and glue (PVA inside, West Systems outside), to attach things to wooden battens I use screws, to attach steel to steel I use a welder, machine screws or nuts and bolts depending on the situation, for non ferrous to steel I use either brass machine screws and tap threads or occasionally braising (dependent on the situation).
I've been in business more than 20 years, so the idea that pricing becomes easy after a year does not apply to me, or TBH most people I know in my trade.. The thing is that most boats hide a multitude of sins that only become apparent when you start to remove things. In my early years when I was hungry for work I tripped myself up by under pricing as a result of this. Nowadays I have way more work than I can handle so whilst I give estimates I rarely give a fixed price. If people insist I either just work on one of the many other boats waiting for my services or I aim high (perhaps double what I think it should cost). I always explain this to my customers.
 
Kris the Handyman, just a couple of extra points, the reason you should always use brass machine screws rather than steel or stainless is that down the line someone will probably have to remove them, and decades in a marine environment can often make them difficult to remove and they can snap. Now a stainless or hardened steel fixing snapped going into mild steel is very hard to deal withas the fixing is harder than the surrounding steel and almost impossible to drill out, best bet in this situation is to wack it with a punch and try to shatter it. On the other hand a brass fixing into mild steel is easy to drill out as the brass is softer than the steel.
On the topic of pricing, let me tell you a real life story from a couple of months ago, a customer wanted a shelving unit attached to the cabin wall above the gunnels. If I were to have given a quote it would have been based on buying the oak, planning and preping it, cutting four dovetail corners and four rebates, the back of the unit scribed into the irregular shape of the boat and then screwed into the battens. However here's what actually happened. I located the battens and realised that they were too rotten to take the screws, so I removed the panel and realised that the box section of the cabin frame was rotten, so I removed the steel box and replaced with new box section (so now I'm grinding and welding not wood working. As I try to weld on the box section is becomes clear that half the steel cabin sides are rotten and have been made out of filler, so I have to get out the plasma cutter and remove a section of the steel cabin side and replace with new steel plate. Next I have to prime and paint the new steel plate and attach new battens to the new box section and replace the interior wooden panel, which now needs recutting as the boat has changed shape (only slightly, but enough). I then replace the highly flammable insulation from the 70s with kingspan and replace the wooden panel. Now I have to rescribe the shelves as everything has moved and screw them to the wall.
Now this was a particularly annoying job, but that is not an unusual set of events in my trade, if I had given a firm price I would have been literally paying for the materials out of my own pocket and had two days labour money for a weeks work. If you intend to get into working on boats, bear this in mind and protect yourself. Good communications with the customer helps, and if they seem like a dick when you first discuss the work, walk away
 
Ah I forgot you can't mention the word proffesional on here....dirty word! The weekend warriors and DIYers don't like it....no one should do woodwork, enjoy it and get paid...how dare you!
 
Professional's just a word. That's all.

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MattRoberts":3acx5mjl said:
You seem to have quite an issue with anyone who enjoys woodwork but doesn't earn a living from it - why is that?
Beat me to it

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For quoting I tend to use a solar powered calculator. I can use my phone but I've found it just drains the battery. I always prefer to use a mechanical pencil when I'm working out my quotes cause it's a lot easier to erase any mishaps. Even though the pencil has a built-in eraser I still prefer to use a dedicated separate eraser. My way of thinking is I'll save the pencil eraser for when I'm desperate. Get everything in writing. I use generic cartridges for printing quotes and invoices and I haven't had any issues yet. You really don't need photo quality genuine cartridges. Hth [WINKING FACE]

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cornishjoinery":2cnlpxyh said:
Ah I forgot you can't mention the word proffesional on here....dirty word! The weekend warriors and DIYers don't like it....no one should do woodwork, enjoy it and get paid...how dare you!

It's nothing to do with whether you are a professional or not it's down to attitude.

There are plenty of professionals on here that have been a great help to us "weekend warriors".

You would probably find people more receptive to you if you hadn't had such a snobby elitest attitude in the past.

Some names stand out on here for good and bad reasons and unfortunately due to your past actions you fall into the latter category.
 
Excuse me gentlemen this thread seems to have a rather negative tone to it.
The OP asked a perfectly sensible question. Can we try and keep this (and every other thread) positive and friendly please.
 
I think it's his response to a similar post Nev that's irked a few
30fabfbf951170b3560771342bab4512.jpg


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Regardless of a year old post, the question was civil.

*If someone is irked by something someone says then drags it up at every opportunity in the future then every thread will eventually end up in handbags.
If you don't like someone for whatever reason do not reply to their posts.

*not just this post but all posts, in fact, life in general.

End of.
 
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