Fly Tipping

[transatlantic]

I was listening to the radio yesterday and the topic of fly tipping came up. I didn't realise we had such a problem with it, but apparently it's a massive issue and well on the rise. Specifically it's a huge issue in the organized crime arena in which we're talking about huge amounts of waste dumped on someones property overnight. One example was 80 tonnes worth! Another example was someone getting a load of toxic waste dumped on their land, with the clean up fee coming to £150k!!! ... this person didn't have insurance so had to pay it themselves.

Honestly, it's sickening. Even if you do have insurance, I'm guessing they're only going to pay out on the first few occasions. After that, you're probably not going to be insurable ... what happens then?

Another point brought up was who in fact has to pay the fee for the cleanup when you pay someone else to remove your waste, who then fly tips it. Turns out, its you, something which I wasn't aware of myself. The example given was someone finding an advertisement in the local newspaper to remove waste. That person then fly tipping it in front of another local business (blocking their access) and then the person having to not only pay in fees for the cleanup, but also the losses for the business who couldn't operate. Which came to 4.5k!

I had to rent a skip a couple of weeks back and was thoroughly worried someone was going to dump their own rubbish in it. Luckily, no one did.

Humans. Despicable bunch of creatures aren't we?

 

[graduate_owner]

Interesting points you have raised.

I wonder if you have to take out a specific insurance policy to cover against fly tippers dumping on your property. And what do you do if the stuff dumped on your land is toxic waste?

Also how can you ensure a waste carrier is genuine and that you are not just paying out to a fly tipper?

I remember a TV report about someone who rented a warehouse for storage. When the owner got back possession she found tons and tons of used tyres had been left there, and she had to foot the bill for removal.

Plenty of food for thought. Thank you for raising the issue.

K

 

[RobinBHM]

The local amenity tip here has introduced charges, mostly for heavy building waste. A builders rubble sack full is charged at £4.5 each.

I do wonder if all this will do is increase the level of flytipping.

A couple of weeks back in this village, a grass verge had a really large truckload of fly tipped waste dumped, only just about 10ft from the nearest house.

At work I get 'scrap metal collectors' come around the estate. They rummage through our skip taking any metal.On a few occasions they have left fridge freezers behind (after removing the motor). Once we left some tins of paint which were being disposed of, they still contained some paint -which was tipped out on the tarmac before the tin was taken.

 

[t8hants]

One of the most stupid of the mantra's chanted by the greens is 'The polluter must pay' and that has contributed greatly to the fly tipping scandal.
The more toxic, undesirable,or just plain disgusting the waste the more desirable it is that it is disposed of correctly.
If there was a reward for the correct disposal of such stuff, people would be falling over themselves to do it and going around to collect it.
Just as used to be the case when scrap prices were high, we had to fight totters off our scrap bins so keen were they to remove it for us.

 

[Rorschach]

It's all caused by councils trying to make money from waste disposal, anything where there is money to be made and saved with attract a criminal element. We used to get free pick up of white goods etc, now we have to pay, surprise surprise you see them dumped everywhere. As the posted above says, the more difficult and expensive it gets to dump things, the more flytipping will increase and in the long run cleaning it up costs more than doing it right the first time.

 

[Beau]

It's all caused by councils trying to make money from waste disposal

No it's caused buy this from the OPs post "Humans. Despicable bunch of creatures aren't we?"

 

[Paul Dye]

If you need to dispose of waste there are a few ways to do it.
1. Hire a skip, and risk it being filled by someone else
2. Ask the council to collect it, in Suffolk they will collect up to 5 items for around £30 (ideal if its a couple of sofas)
3. Take it to a municipal site, usually free if it is your own waste, there can be exceptions, locally there is a fee for hard core and plasterboard
4. Hire someone else to take it away. This is where the potential problems start. As the producer of the waste it is your responsibility to ensure that the person you hire has a waste carriers licence and provides you with a waste transfer note. If you follow these rules you should be home and dry. However, if you fail to check and the waste gets fly tipped then the Environment Agency will come after you. To compound the issue there are 2 types of licence. You can only pay somebody with an Upper Tier Licence to take your waste.
Checking is very simple, ask the person for their licence number then go to the Environment Agency website https://environment.data.gov.uk/public- ... rs-brokers and pop it in. If it doesn't match their name don't use them. If they refuse to give you their number don't use them. If they say they don't need one because they dispose of the waste through another method don't use them.
I have an Upper Tier Licence and come across these cowboys every day, until people stop using them they will continue to tip somewhere, even in residential areas!

 

[Paul Dye]

It's all caused by councils trying to make money from waste disposal

The reason that councils charge is because they need the money to clear up the fly tipping (hammer)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

According to Jacob there is no longer a problem with fly tipping, it has been decreasing for years.

 

[Beau]

One of the most stupid of the mantra's chanted by the greens is 'The polluter must pay'

In an ideal world would completely disagree with you. It is very unfair for everyone via taxes to subsidise those that create the waste. Loads of the waste I see fly tipped is household waste from refits and old flat pack furniture which probably worked fine just was not todays style.

Hate our disposable wasteful culture :twisted:

 

[Rorschach]

It's all caused by councils trying to make money from waste disposal

No it's caused buy this from the OPs post "Humans. Despicable bunch of creatures aren't we?"

Well true, our local councillors fit the bill nicely.

 

[Mark A]

My local tip (Llanelli) is ran by a private company and it's fantastic. They also operate the bin lorries around here.

Householders, builders, house clearance people and gypsies can use it with no problems, and there's no charges whatsoever - plasterboard, hardcore, plastic, electricals, gas cylinders....

They even take asbestos O)

They recycle as much of the rubbish they receive as possible (sold on) and the council uses their premises for their waste (undoubtedly at a cost) so it must be a profitable business for them, with the extra bonus that we can take our twin-axle trailer filled with hardcore and it's completely free.

If people can dispose of their waste easily then why fly tip? Builders, gypsies and house clearance people probably aren't really allowed to use the site, but they seem to turn a blind eye to it - why not if they're making profit?

Swansea council, on the other hand, doesn't permit vans, trailers or pickup trucks in all but two sites, and they charge us for the privilege. Is that surely only going to encourage fly tipping? I reckon the answer is privatisation.


Now I wait for the usual few contrarians to denounce me as a heretic/Trump supporter/Nazi/polar bear killer for saying this...

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Some years ago, there was official concern that we were running out of landfill sites. I'm not sure whether that was genuinely the case, but that was what was being put about. Thus, the EU came up with a suite of regulations about the collection and disposal of wastes, and measures to increase recycling. A tax was introduced on material going to landfill, with some of the tax returned to various public bodies to fund works of general public benefit. Regulations were also gradually introduced to control what happened to different types of waste - the Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Regulations, for example.

Thus, councils became constrained with their waste collection and disposal services, and targets were imposed on them to increase recycling. All this increased bureaucracy, and thus costs. Running several types of domestic collection vehicles (in our area, kerbside sorting of recyclable materials, garden waste and general waste) rather than one type of dustcart taking anything, has to be more expensive, but they're legally bound. Same for businesses disposing of waste - the onus is now on the business to comply with relevant laws - at their own cost.

All very worthy, you might say. Maybe, but the unintended consequence of all this added bureaucracy is added cost, and in a time of squeezed government funding, councils have to balance their books how they can - so they seek to pass some of the cost back onto the public. Thus, if you happen to have some waste that doesn't easily fit an official category, or you can't easily transport it to an authorised disposal centre yourself, you have a problem. The responsible builders (or whatever) will acquire the appropriate licences, pay the appropriate fees and pass on the costs to their customers - and that creates an opening for the cowboys to undercut the legitimate traders.

Also, if you've ever had the experience of taking waste to a council recycling centre and being told you can't 'cos you're not from the right area, or they don't take that sort of waste, you can understand the type who wait until after dark, find a quiet country lane, and lob it over a hedge. Job done, no cost, no paperwork.

If it were easier to get rid of waste legally, fly-tipping would reduce significantly. But whilst the disposal of waste is hedged about by a vast suite of rules and regulations - however well meaning - it will continue to be a problem.

 

[Rorschach]

My local tip (Llanelli) is ran by a private company and it's fantastic. They also operate the bin lorries around here.

Householders, builders, house clearance people and gypsies can use it with no problems, and there's no charges whatsoever - plasterboard, hardcore, plastic, electricals, gas cylinders....

They even take asbestos O)

They recycle as much of the rubbish they receive as possible (sold on) and the council uses their premises for their waste (undoubtedly at a cost) so it must be a profitable business for them, with the extra bonus that we can take our twin-axle trailer filled with hardcore and it's completely free.

If people can dispose of their waste easily then why fly tip? Builders, gypsies and house clearance people probably aren't really allowed to use the site, but they seem to turn a blind eye to it - why not if they're making profit?

Swansea council, on the other hand, doesn't permit vans, trailers or pickup trucks in all but two sites, and they charge us for the privilege. Is that surely only going to encourage fly tipping? I reckon the answer is privatisation.


Now I wait for the usual few contrarians to denounce me as a heretic/Trump supporter/Nazi/polar bear killer for saying this...

I'm with you there!

 

[jase158]

My local tip (Llanelli) is ran by a private company and it's fantastic. They also operate the bin lorries around here.

Householders, builders, house clearance people and gypsies can use it with no problems, and there's no charges whatsoever - plasterboard, hardcore, plastic, electricals, gas cylinders....

They even take asbestos O)

They recycle as much of the rubbish they receive as possible (sold on) and the council uses their premises for their waste (undoubtedly at a cost) so it must be a profitable business for them, with the extra bonus that we can take our twin-axle trailer filled with hardcore and it's completely free.

If people can dispose of their waste easily then why fly tip? Builders, gypsies and house clearance people probably aren't really allowed to use the site, but they seem to turn a blind eye to it - why not if they're making profit?

Swansea council, on the other hand, doesn't permit vans, trailers or pickup trucks in all but two sites, and they charge us for the privilege. Is that surely only going to encourage fly tipping? I reckon the answer is privatisation.


Now I wait for the usual few contrarians to denounce me as a heretic/Trump supporter/Nazi/polar bear killer for saying this...

Completely agree- I live near London and they charge for anything larger then a Land Rover. Absolutely ridiculous as we can get permits but takes about a week and I could get more in a mini then Allowed in a van.
In my opinion any waste brought by a tradesmen is "household waste" so should be allowed.
My brother took a small sign- just one sign from his business in a car and got turned away.
Mix this with the attitude of the staff and it's no wonder that people are using cheap services to remove there rubbish.

 

[graduate_owner]

We have a privately run unit near us, in Llangadog. They no longer take asbestos, or paint or old tyres, but accept practically everything else. They also allow trailers, though I'm not sure about 4 wheeled trailers. They even help with unloading, if needed. They put wooden items and garden prunings etc through a pulveriser, bag it and sell it.Frankly, I think they are brilliant.
Also every so often the local council operate an amnesty - they bring a few trucks to the local car park and will accept tyres etc free of charge. They even give you a bag of their recycled compost for using their amnesty service. How sensible is that?

K

 

[rafezetter]

It's all caused by councils trying to make money from waste disposal, anything where there is money to be made and saved with attract a criminal element. We used to get free pick up of white goods etc, now we have to pay, surprise surprise you see them dumped everywhere. As the posted above says, the more difficult and expensive it gets to dump things, the more flytipping will increase and in the long run cleaning it up costs more than doing it right the first time.

It would be very interesting to see what the relative costs are between how much it costs to dipose of something properly, and the cost of cleanup when no person is held liable.

Could going back to the reward system be either cheaper, about break even or only marginally more?

Seems this could well be another one of those short sighted council / govement sytems trying to save money or to make a buck; and failing miserably.

And yes Humans are a dispicable race, driven by greed and only giving a 4 lettered pinapple about thier own doorstep, and not next doors.

I'd suggest the cost of disposal of all white goods should go to the manufacturers, maybe then they will make them last a bit longer, like they used to.

 

[RogerS]

Having just moved from Herefordshire to Northumberland it's been an interesting 'compare and contrast'.

Request to take black bin bags down to the roadside given the very long track between house and roadside

Herefordshire - no problem

Northumberland - NO

Recycling remit

Herefordshire - pretty much anything and all goes into a clear recycling bag and taken down to the roadside

Northumberland - very, very limited recycling

Taking household DIY waste to the tip

Herefordshire - no problem. Even asbestos and plasterboard

Northumberland - £25 for a car load. No asbestos. No plasterboard. No this. No that.

Council political allegiance

Herefordshire - Conservative majority

Northumberland - Labour

Says it all, really.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You need to change your location, Roger.

 

[flying haggis]

If the farmers hadn't removed all the hedges there would be many more places to dump stuff..................