Flooring for a large room

[Wuffles]

So, the missus put plans in for an extension, and they got approved, we were expecting the council to tell us to tone it down a bit on size, but they didn't. Now we're out of the ground just building the walls up, the time has come to start thinking ahead about flooring.

Here's the problem, it's close to 100sqm and I'm a bit panicked.

Large open plan area will serve as kitchen, diner and lounge. It'll have screed sub-floor and underfloor heating within that.

First she managed to find a resin based product that could do the whole area with no need for expansion but that's weighing in at close to £100 per sqm...which is a lot at 100sqm to do. Although it is going to be used for worktops as that's less of a frightening area to consider.

So what about wood? Ideally something really solid that wouldn't look out of place in an old pub/hotel foyer - follow me? Something that will gain character with scratches, dings and dents.

Is this:

1) a bad idea over a screed floor (drying times are pretty scary from what I've read)

2) going to cost an arm and a leg

3) going to make the whole space potentially too dark - much like an old pub/hotel foyer would

and finally

4) is it going to require all sorts of expansion gaps in various places, or does a glue or nail down type not require that?

Anyway, wondered if anyone has any experience of this or opinions that they wish to throw in.

 

[dickm]

Only advice, from bitter experience, is not to use real wood for a kitchen floor. A few years of spilled food, water etc and it gets to look carp.

 

[Wuffles]

Roger. May have to split it all up into different materials, which may or may not make the "open plan" thing look a little less so.

Had limestone in a kitchen once before, won't happen again for similar reasons.

 

[porker]

Hi,
Looking at this myself. I would say don't use real wood for this application. It will simply move around too much. I would look at engineered wood with a decent top veneer of a few mm. It is much more stable. I think you can install underfloor heating with this no problem. I think the recommendation is too fix the floor down with sikabond or similar. I had a solid oak floor fitted of around 70 sq m and this was floating on a 3mm foam underlay. It worked well but moved a bit between seasons. If you go this route remember to leave an expansion gap (my fitter didn't - at least not in the direction it expanded. After I reminded him to leave an expansion gap - he did - at the ends of the boards!). It was a right pain putting this right after the floor all buckled up but it worked in the end.
Personally I quite like some of the Amtico or Karndean finishes but its not real wood. I saw also that you can get porcelain tiles that look like wood but probably a bit cold in the winter.
Matt

 

[silvertip]

You could go for engineered oak (or you wood preference) glued down directly to the screed once it is at the required moisture content using a product like lumberjack 650 (I think it's called) or over laid on a moisture barrier sometimes with a cork type underlay.. Leaving the usual perimeter explanation gap.

 

[RobinBHM]

Solid wood floor, fresh screed and underfloor heating is not a marriage made in heaven!

For a real timber floor, structural engineered is a wiser choice (structural is the thicker option). I am led to understand the floor is fixed to the screed with flexible glue -better heat transmission as it has no air gap unlike a floating floor.

Of course timber is a good insulator so could make the underfloor heating less responsive.

Tiles I suppose may be the ideal partner for underfloor heating, but is a very unforgiving surface.

You might consider Karndeane timber flooring-its warm underfoot and surprisingly reaslistic.

 

[Mike.S]

+1 for Amtico.

Our kitchen floor is screeded and had an Amtico herringbone patterned wood effect finish down which first time visitors think is real wood - some 20 years after it was first laid! The spare tiles I kept in case of damage remain unused in the shed. Good stuff and lots of different styles/patterns available.

 

[No skills]

Years ago a large diy retailer I worked for had a refit in our shop, the interiors section had a large area of wood effect heavy duty vinyl planks laid. Couldn't tell you the brand (memory fail) but it was certainly very realistic, made me stop and have a good look before I realised it wasn't real timber.

Couldn't fault the resilience either, years of public traffic and power pallet abuse - no damage.

FWIW

Edit - I think it was bonded direct to a fresh floor screed, wasn't a lot of time between the screed and the laying.

 

[RobinBHM]

If you are having underfloor heating, expansion foam should be fitted around the perimeter.

Ive found Amtico or Karndeane installers wont fit unless the screed is fully dry, which is wise. Although expensive, flexidry screed additive is worth considering. 75mm of screed takes a long time to dry, somewhere in the region of 3 months. This can be reduced to 3 days with flexidry. It should be mixed by a forced action pan mixer though so needs to be laid by a specialist screeding team. The extra cost may be offset by a significant saving on the work schedule, especially bringing forward the timetable for kitchen fitting.

 

[Wuffles]

Thanks everyone.

If you are having underfloor heating, expansion foam should be fitted around the perimeter.

Ive found Amtico or Karndeane installers wont fit unless the screed is fully dry, which is wise. Although expensive, flexidry screed additive is worth considering. 75mm of screed takes a long time to dry, somewhere in the region of 3 months. This can be reduced to 3 days with flexidry. It should be mixed by a forced action pan mixer though so needs to be laid by a specialist screeding team. The extra cost may be offset by a significant saving on the work schedule, especially bringing forward the timetable for kitchen fitting.

I'll bear all of that in mind when that time comes around. I certainly won't be attempting the screeding myself but I will be laying the insulation and the pipework. When we poured the slab (in 3 sections) expansion gaps were put between them and a 30mm celotex upstand was put around the perimeter of the room to stop cold transfer, which seemed odd as that's not the sub-floor, but like with most things, you just end up rolling with it. So it might be nice to have something to stop cold transfer as well as allow expansion on the screed.

I should have clarified from the outset, when I say I don't want any expansion gaps, I meant directly across the floor like you see in some large areas. Around the edge is not a problem.

When people say engineered wooden flooring, I can't help but think of the click-lock type of laminate stuff with the 10mm veneer of [insert wood] on the top. Presumably we are talking about something different.

So, tiling (whether in ceramic or vinyl) seems to be the general consensus so far for resilience and practicality and being able to put it down this side of Christmas. However, if products like Karndeane or Amtico require specialist fitters, the cost may start to creep up closer to the resin flooring, which would be good as any justification to have this stuff could be helpful.

My original doubts about wood have been confirmed (and then some), so appreciate the advice on that. I reckon we need to spend some time speaking to the suits in showrooms and see what is recommended for each product, plus get costs for each including fitting.

If we did end up with tiles, we have faux limestone at the other end of the house, so we'd probably just get more of that, it's light, does look the business and doesn't have the overheads of real limestone. However, with fitting (I'm not doing an area of that size myself) I suspect the costs will rise as the tiles alone are £38psqm trade.

For anyone curious, the resin product she's been looking at is known as Beton Cire but it has other names.

Mods, this isn't in any way related to wood now, so if you'd rather move it, feel free.