Finishing finish with gorge marks

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caretaker

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I always feel guilty when I ask a question but don't know why.
Well here go's.
I am turning a 8inch bowl and seem to have gorge marks on the side that I can not get rid of.
I have tried the flat scraper, sandpaper, wire wool.
Is it me?
Is it my tools?
I do sharpen them but what am I doing wrong?
 
Not sure what you mean Reg. :?
Are they gorges left by the gouge or sanding.What wood are you :?: using.Any chance of a piccy showing em.
Paul.J.
 
Hi reg.

Inside or outside? As Paul has said you would need to give more details.
 
I will take some pictures to morrow but as for the wood, I got the wood from West and it did not have a name on it but I liked the dark colour.
I think the marks are left with my gorge so I run the flat scraper across 3 or 4 times then sandpaper but it has got rid of most of the marks.
I may be sanding at to high a speed, will slow it down and give it a second go.
I also may be a touch heavy handed with the chisels.
The bowl is looking fairly good for me but will keep trying.
Hope to pop down to Yandles Thursday weather permitting, get more wood.
Edit out side..
 
caretaker, sounds as though you may be tearing (pulling) the end grain with your tools, if you have been taking aggressive cuts anywhere near your finished size then you could have torn the fibres (like pulling hairs) instead of cutting cleanly, this can then go quite deep into the wood fabric 3-4mm say and usually shows as a lighter patch.

Having said that some woods can have an apparent 'colour banding' associated with grain direction change that goes right through the piece and can fool you. I don't think it is that though as you say you have reduced it with sanding.

If you see this occurring again try treating it with sanding sealer before your final cuts with a sharp gouge, this will help support the wood fibres whilst being cut, sometimes wetting the surface with water or oil will help.

Sanding should be done at slower speeds than the turning, try hand sanding with the lathe stationary, sand in the grain direction on the problem area only.
 
If it is on the outside it could be that you have simply been too hard with the gouge as Chas says, in this case one option tht I do is to make a feature of it but cutting gentle a cove to get rid of the gouge mark. I have found that using a scraper anywhere where there is end grain only makes things worse as it rips instead of cutting. I have used a spindle gouge on the outside using the bevel to help smooth cut it. Don't try this on the inside though!!!!

Pete
 
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It is very difficult to know the origin of these defects by only looking at the picture.
If I look at the inside of your bowl, May be you were not really laying the bevel correctly while holding your bowl gouge. In addition it looks like the bowl was not turning true (but I might be wrong on both assumptions)
 
Thanks for the piccys Reg.
Reg it looks as though you still have enough wood left to get those marks out.
Make sure your tools are sharp,and use a scraper for the inside taking nice smooth even cuts.
I'd use a sharp spindle gouge for the outside.Mke sure the bevel is rubbing and take again nice smooth even cuts.
HTH.
I'm hopeless at trying to explain,better off doing :roll:
Paul.J.
 
Hi Reg.

You can see the marks you speak of in the pics. but without watching you turn it is very hard to guess what is going wrong.

If you modified the shape of your bowls to a more conventional curved form, instead of flat bottom/straight sides you will find you would be cutting with the grain a lot more which would give you a far superiour finish before sanding.

Sorry I can't be more help, but your's has got to be one of the hardest questions to answer without actually seeing you turn.
 
Reg,
I'm no expert, but I think you may need to practise taking long continuous cuts without lifting the tool from the piece - keeping the bevel in contact all the time and taking a very thin cut.

You need to be bold and go thinner also. It just takes practise, and lots of it - you will make mistakes and lose pieces - we all have!
 
Reg, looks like you need some real help,
this forum is great for advice on a technical and instructional aspects, but you really need someone to actually show you,
is there not a woodturning club nearby to you, do you live near to any other forum members, do you know anyone that turns.

If so show them this bowl, ask them to show you where you went wrong in tool presentation, finishing and sharpening, they will be only to willing to help.

Its a pity I live so far away, I would willingly help you, someone out there help Reg
 
Hi Reg,

I agree with Nick. Its not unusual for new woodturners to produce shallow thick-bottomed bowls. The remedy is practice and experience. Don't be afraid to push it a bit. You can take wood down to a few millimetres and it still won't break and, anyway, even if it does, you have to tell yourself it was only a bit of wood. You'll learn as much and probably more from the ones that go wrong as from the ones that go right. Just keep trying to get better and enjoy what you are doing. You've made a good start.

Bob
 
Hi Reg

A couple of thoughts, that may only confuse - apologies in advance if they do!

First of all I like the sense of solidity for such a flat plate. I admit I usually try to go fairly thin - actually achieved a transparency once that beggared belief! - but whilst a thinner look seems better for more bowl like dishes I reckon a chunkier look for a flat dish/plate has its charms simply through being not-thin. And my ultimate critic thinks so to - which is nice! Cos I have several with similar proportions!!
And the little grooves work well too. You'll have seen I expect that they have a 'lightening' effect. Nicely done - that's something I'm still very much experimenting with - which of course is turner-talk for I've made quite a lot of grooved firewood whilst I've been experimenting!
Practice will bring the thinner/slimmer styles along as your confidence grows.

Pete can tell you all about vanishing bottoms in turned projects!

IMHO there are two main likely reasons for those seeming gouge marks, both already identified, and that's either not maintaining a steady pressure for the cut - especially for the last couple of finishing ones - which allows the bevel to bounce in and out of cutting/burnishing mode, or there's been a bit of wood movement (I was going to say 'bow(e)l movement' - ha ha, but that would be rude!).
Each of these likely reasons has one or more factors to consider (sometimes I find turning makes the brain hurt!!).
Tool sharpness may be a contributory reason, but the rest of your work looks well-cut to me, so I'm not so sure!

Steady cutting pressure - lack of - possible causes........
(these are all easy to say, but much much harder to get right!)
1 - simply not maintaining a consistent pressure, often a too short cutting stroke/movement - easy cure, practice practice and more practice - you'll learn to feel it 'being right', or 'not right', as the case may be! Soft wood is good for this practice cos it shows abuse marks more easily than hardwood - you've probably already found that it can be more difficult to turn a good finish on softwoods rather than hardwoods. They tear and bruise easily.
2 - as for 1, but down to posture - usually over-extending/stretching out as the finishing part/area of the cut is further away from you, so you're not in control - cure is to think posture and maintain a constant distance from the cutting action whenever possible, swing/swivel the hips!
3 - allowing the gouge to roll away from the line of cut as it cuts, so the shape of the cut changes as you present different parts of the cutting edge to the wood - think skidding round a bend in a car, and how the shape of four wheel contact and the forward car motion alter (and the sideways and backward motions too!!) - you probably realise the change in cutting pattern has happened and the automatic response is to push harder, which cuts deeper, so you ease off, and the circle has begun!!!...... all good cause and effect stuff isn't it?!

Ok, that's enough for the 'steady pressure' thing, now for 'wood movement'..........
1 - that the wood is moving 'out of true' as it turns - can happen if you're holding the piece with light pressure, or if the holes have become larger as you've worked it. In other words it's been having a bit of a wobble! Doesn't need to be much to effectively change the 'definition' of the circle that you are shaping, which could cause those marks.
2 - (not really wood movement this one, but I promise it is v v v common!) that you're not maintaining contact with the tool rest, so the chisel has the chance to 'bounce', and then 'digs' a bit as you recover and settle in again. Each time you 'hit' the wood as the chisel bounces.
And the cure is pretty much same as always - you know what I'm going to say! Practice, etc., etc.

I can also only echo the advice above to go watch a pro, several if you get the chance (we're talking cat-skinning techniques here!! There's always at least two ways to do something, and that doesn't include the wrong way! But the ground 'rules'/techniques are always the same. And they are what you need to be using.) - and think very carefully about what he/she achieves and how they're doing it.
A lesson would be a cracking investment now too.

Self-taught is probably the way into turning for most folk, but it's like most skills - if we don't fully appreciate the 'rules' we can't really begin to understand how/why method 'a' produces consistently good results, whilst method 'b' produces mostly firewood!
 
Well a lot of good advise, thanks.
I would like to blame my tool rest ( you're not maintaining contact with the tool rest) but I think its me, need more practice.
I do get me chisels stuck on parts of the tool rest some times.
I have moved on to earring stands, well made a start, so far so good, have done the centre pillar with zebra wood and now doing Yew for the top.
The zebra wood comes up nice.
 
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