Finger meets tablesaw. OUCH?

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
theartfulbodger":ygjqcb94 said:
When seatbelts were introduced how many wore them and how many said "I don't need that"

Sorry but that is not comparable with this issue, there are already adequate safety procedures that could be followed, it's just our friends over the pond don't seem to get it, and americans using common sense is probably the last thing sawstop want
 
And judging by the youtube vids sawstop table saws dont come with a crown guard, why is this? - oh I remember it has the cash generating drop mechanism :roll:
 
theartfulbodger":1u20iq9u said:
ABS then? Better example? :-"

When first introduced drivers of ABS equipped cars had more accidents.

I would say that's a better example, certainly both create over complacency
 
True enough. Safety devices should never be more important than training and correct use of equipment.

It was a quote from a traffic cop who did my advanced driver training years ago that I remembered and I thought I might be called on it so I did a quick google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
Anti-lock brakes are the subject of some experiments centred around risk compensation theory, which asserts that drivers adapt to the safety benefit of ABS by driving more aggressively. In a Munich study, half a fleet of taxicabs was equipped with anti-lock brakes, while the other half had conventional brake systems. The crash rate was substantially the same for both types of cab, and Wilde concludes this was due to drivers of ABS-equipped cabs taking more risks, assuming that ABS would take care of them, while the non-ABS drivers drove more carefully since ABS would not be there to help in case of a dangerous situation.[13] A similar study was carried out in Oslo, with similar results.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5393969_abs-v ... rakes.html
due to misconceptions about ABS, driver confidence in a decrease in stopping distance may lead to increases in accidents

But I think we're agreeing.


Maybe the manufacturers should fit it but not tell anyone :mrgreen:
 
If SawStop was available as a retro-fit instead of having to buy a completely new saw then I reckon as long as the cost wasn't as high as it is (to replace said system once it's been triggered), then folk would go for it. But as people have said already, it may encourage complacency with regard to safety. If you take the same view towards safety on every machine then there are bound to be far less accidents.

_Dan.
 
Im sure you have gathered my answer. I do believe it may save fingers but, kick back accidents will rise. I do have an arrogance about me, so for my own safety I wouldn't have one.
 
Hudson,
Should be no kick back accidents as the machine in the UK would be fitted with a riving knife to EU safety standards, also, the action of the blade assembly when stopped is not condusive to kick back, as it does not just stop dead!
 
Paul, I'd be interested, but I'll likely have purchased the US model by then. However, don't let that stop you :) I'm sure people would be interested.

How different do you think the changes might be in order to satisfy EU laws? Did they show their cards on the necessary changes?

If you do speak to them, tell them that their customer service people suck at being helpful. I am having no joy with them at the moment at all.
 
NetBlindPaul":zv5vlhxf said:
Hudson,
Should be no kick back accidents as the machine in the UK would be fitted with a riving knife to EU safety standards, also, the action of the blade assembly when stopped is not condusive to kick back, as it does not just stop dead!

You miss understood I think. As the operator "may" be less safety conscious when using the saw, paying less attention to what he his doing, could result in an action that results in a kick back. Riving knifes don't stop kick back they help prevent it. Even using a rip fence set correctly, with a knife, the machine can still kick back if you twist the timber or the timber extremely bow/twistes as you cut through its fibers. For someone paying less attention this could be dangerous.
 
I'm going to add just a few points.

First, I have seen the Sawstop, and it is a well-made saw, not cheap in any sense. I have not seen a demo of the stop mechanism in person, but I have every confidence that it works as designed. It does have a feature that lets you turn off the stop mechanism, because otherwise it would trigger when sawing wet wood. I believe Paul has correctly described it and how it works. I believe it also uses the blade momentum to help drop the blade below the table when the cartridge is fired.

Second, they have already come out with a cheaper, contractor-type saw version. I haven't seen this, but again, I presume it works fine. I think it still costs about $1500 or more, though.

Third, riving knives are mandated on all new saws sold in the US after a certain date (maybe 2012 or 2014). Nearly all, if not all, new cabinet saws have them now, but all had to be redesigned to take them (the new type Delta Unisaw, which replaced a 70 year old design, and the Powermatic 2000 that replace the PM 66 are the two most prominent). I don't think most dinky jobsite saws have riving knives yet, but they will get them.

Fourth, the Sawstop inventor p*ssed off a lot of people here, not just other manufacturers, by trying to get his mechanism mandated by the government. As a consequence, the Sawstop has become a religious issue on US woodworking forums and some have even listed specific rules on how to discuss the Sawstop and keeping things civil, or the threads get locked down or even erased right away.

Fifth, the Ryobi lawsuit outraged a lot of people. However, there are stupid people everywhere, and the Sawstop technology might have been the only way to keep this silly person from hurting himself. Euro-rule guards would not have helped. By the way, you can bet that suit is on appeal and may not stand up or serve as a precedent.

Sixth: Given that, however, people with expensive saws are much less likely to do stupid stuff than somebody who bought the $99.99 special at the big box store. There will always be saws too cheap to have Sawstop type mechanisms. So the cheap idiots will continue to hurt themselves. They have not invested the time to learn good practices, and poor usage will trump good design sooner or later.

Finally, one type of customer that Sawstops are selling a lot of saws to are schools. This is probably good--there's nothing like a know-it-all 15-year-old to do stupid stuff no matter how many times you tell him not to.

Oh, one other thing: One of the reasons I read this forum is because I find almost everyone here to be civil and good-natured, unlike on some US sites. Unfortunately, Sawstop discussions (along with various Festool rants) have contributed to the sour tone in those places.

Kirk
 
Back
Top