Finding staff

[Phil Pascoe]

"And for somewhat less than the national average full time salary (£26,500 in the year April 2012; ONS)"
I can't speak for his area, but don't forget that for many areas (Cornwall, for one) that wage is way beyond many people's wildest dreams.

 

[morfa]

For a skilled job I'd say that's a fair wage. However it seems that generally it's hard to find skilled workers. I suspect that this has always been an issue. Most of my mates are roughly the same age as me or older (30 upwards) and most are skilled & motivated people. None of them have any issues in finding jobs, in a wide range of fields (IT, Retail, Engineering). They all say the same, (those are are involved in hiring and firing) that finding good people is always hard.

It's interesting to see the comments about the youth of today. I do wonder if that's a comment leveled at youth regardless of the time period. Cue misatributed Socrates quote... (it's actually from a play by Aristophanes)

Also the quotes about Eastern Europeans. There's lazy feckless folk from Poland, as well as there being plenty of hardworking skilled people. I never understand why people group them together and expect the same behaviour from a whole country. I think that to an extent, the good ones are the ones who want to get on and they're the ones who are more likely to come over here to work. So we're probably seeing the very best and the very worst (i.e. the ones who are desparate). Maybe that explains the disparity in people's experience.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I used to have to deal with groups of Americans, one group would be some of the nicest people I've ever met and the next would leave you hoping never again to see another one. It's no difference with us (especially abroad). It's not just a European thing.

 

[doctor Bob]

Ahh, but if this is what you are referring to under the "careers" section of your web site, you are looking for experienced cabinet makers who can show initative, work to exacting standards and with experience in bespoke kitchens essential. That sounds a bit more than being able to fit a door to me ? And for somewhat less than the national average full time salary (£26,500 in the year April 2012; ONS)

I sometimes wonder if by asking for more experience than you really need you don't put off the genuine people who know they aren't an experinced cabinet maker, and the genuinely experienced who can't/won't work for the salary, and only get left with the bulls****ers applying.


Edited to add: Nice looking kitchens BTW. If the wife sees your site, I'm in trouble.

Indeed the website says this, however my advert in the paper this week is for a "bench joiner", I am getting virtually no response and those that do apply "quite like the idea of making things". There is zero point in me taking these people as I take apprentices on each year tpo learn from scratch.

 

[JohnPW]

I think the problem is employers want people who are already doing the job, ie fully skilled and experienced, but they are already have a job! And they're not going to change job unless pay and working conditions are better, or move to a new area.

The number of people already doing the job but who wants to leave their current employment/self employment are going to be relatively few compared with the general unemployment figures. That's why employers look at the 10,000s of jobless figures and can't think why they can't find staff. It seems most skilled jobs are filled by people moving from job to job and not from the unemployed.

 

[rafezetter]

Still looking.
It's not rocket science, I just want someone who can hang a door in a face frame and progress from there.

I can hang a door and more (and I mean properly, 2mm gap etc hinges in the right places; almost perfect 1st time kind of "hang a door"), but I'm not an "experienced cabinetmaker" and although I have extensive handy skills, I wouldn't go so far as to say you could leave me with a laborer to fit a kitchen alone - at least not for the first half dozen anyway, plus to go to cornwall would be a major upheaval - the upside down move everything kind.

You're saying the above here, yet elsewhere asking for a whole lot more. Clarification may help you decide your actual practical needs which may *ahem* open more doors

Edit: Essex not Cornwall!

 

[No skills]

Still looking.
It's not rocket science, I just want someone who can hang a door in a face frame and progress from there.

Theres the problem. Say experienced cabinet maker and I'd laugh and say no chance. Cupboard door in a frame and learn from there, no problem. How you would best convey that in your advert is another matter.

 

[doctor Bob]

Sorry guys, I'm not sure where this confusion is coming from, if you read my posts, it says I have advertised for a bench joiner with experience in kitchens.
The website careers page is a different entity.
The advert has been running for 3 weeks and each week I lower the tone of the advert.

Today I had a guy ring up who is handy at fencing, wooden fences as well. !!!!!!!!!

 

[ColeyS1]

Meanwhile the original guys still looking for a long weight......... :lol:

 

[JandK]

Sorry guys, I'm not sure where this confusion is coming from, if you read my posts, it says I have advertised for a bench joiner with experience in kitchens.
The website careers page is a different entity.
The advert has been running for 3 weeks and each week I lower the tone of the advert.

Today I had a guy ring up who is handy at fencing, wooden fences as well. !!!!!!!!!

He may do some rustic kitchens for you :mrgreen:

 

[Doug B]

Today I had a guy ring up who is handy at fencing, wooden fences as well. !!!!!!!!!

Yebbut with him on board you wouldn't have to worry about the dogs escaping, every cloud & all that jazz :wink:

 

[heimlaga]

Here in Finland employers complain all the time that they cannot get qualified employees. When I was unemployed I was turned down any number of times by any number of employers. They said that I wasn't competent without even letting me make anything to show what I could. Then they usually employed a teenage alcoholist who could hardly drive in a nail. That happened over and over again.......
I have heard many very competent carpenters complain over the same thing. All companies that are big enough to have a human resources manager tend to employ kids who cannot do anything else than smoke and drink vodka and send messages over the phone. Problably because most competent capenters in Finland are fairly individualistic and enterprizing men from the country and rarely have a CV without unexpected turns and bumps of the kind that human resource people are trained to shun.

Some wanted me to work the first year or two for free as a kind of apprenticeship.....but it is impossible for a 30 year old with several years of carpentry experience to work one or two years for free for every new employer when working on a project basis. That would mean a total income of two or three moths pay every two years at best. I told them that I don't have a family fortune to live from while working so at least I want an apprentice's pay. They replied that they do not employ that kind of poor people..... and then they complained on the press over the labour shortage.

One employer offered me 2200 euros per month as an engineer and construction site foreman. I have an engineering degree but I have never worked with it. I accepted..... only to find that the workdays were 10-12 hours long 7 days a week plus personal responsiblility for all accidents and injuries at a site that lacked even the most basic safety precautions such as ladders with all rungs still attached and any materials at all for scaffoldings and where the asbestos hadn't been removed. I wasn't allowed to buy in as much as a box of nails but when the work wasn't progressing because of lack of materials it was all my fault which the boss told I must compensate by working overtime for free. There was always as shortage of workers because the boss had fired them all.
After a few days I shut down the site and handed in the keys and quit. The project turned into a disaster when they employed a 25 year old who had never worked in construction before as their new foreman........

After that I turned self emplyed and had no shortage of work until my back gave in. Now I am roughly halfways through the rehabilitation and potential customers keep calling and asking if I am likely to get well anytime soon. I have tried to find a helper but nobody is interrested...................

I think this employee shortage is a two sided thing. There are plenty of overly greedy employers and plenty of ignorant youngsters who have no clue about anything else than telephones and drinking. No wonder that nothing gets done when both sides are just as bad.

 

[RogerS]

There is no simple answer although the tabloids would have you believe it were.

Yes - in the UK (and elsewhere I am sure) there are unscrupulous employers who do not pay the minimum wage. Quite how they get away with it, I'm not too sure.

Yes - there are some in the UK who are too lazy or feckless to want to do an honest days work as being on the dole makes it too easy for them

Yes - there are some good employers who cannot get enough people to work for them because global market forces are against them. There is a huge crop of potatoes this year yet prices have gone through the floor due to imports. Take our local orchard. Last year, apples were fetching £200 a ton. This year, only £75 and again down to imports. But just check that price out...the grower is getting paid 7.5p a kilo. You can see why an unscrupulous grower might be tempted to pay less than the minimum wage. Now how much do they go for in the supermarket?

Yes - there are young lads and lasses who do do a good days work and are keen to learn and progress in life.

 

[Fat ferret]

I think the problem is employers want people who are already doing the job, ie fully skilled and experienced, but they are already have a job! And they're not going to change job unless pay and working conditions are better, or move to a new area.

The number of people already doing the job but who wants to leave their current employment/self employment are going to be relatively few compared with the general unemployment figures. That's why employers look at the 10,000s of jobless figures and can't think why they can't find staff. It seems most skilled jobs are filled by people moving from job to job and not from the unemployed.

Could have a point there mate.