Entry-level hand plane?

[Jacob]

I have said this somewhere before, but my 2p worth of advice:

Get a No 5 plane (short enough to be weildy, long enough for straightening reasonably sized edges), Stanley or Record. A No 4 will do if you prefer a smaller and lighter plane.
Make sure that the "Y" lever that advances the blade is cast iron, not pressed steel (you have already found this, by the sound of it).
2nd hand from a 2nd hand tool shop or the interweb or similar is probably the way unless you want to pay out for a nice new plane.
Many (most?) planing difficulties can be fixed by sharpening the blade.
Hone the front edge of the chip breaker if shavings jam between it and the blade.

I'd add - make sure the frog face is dead in line with the back of the mouth so that the blade gets maximum support, and forget about "adjusting the mouth" - it's a bit of a myth.
PS and the only bit worth polishing is the top of the cap iron, just the first 1/4" behind the edge, as this could help shavings slip up and over. But it'd polish itself if you used it much.

 

[condeesteso]

My two bobs worth (old money = 10p now). Second hand. Many say be wary of ebay, but I have had nearly 100% success. With a budget of say £25 - 30 you will get a real cracker, be it a No4, 4 1/2, 5. But there are so many around that you need to be a fussy buyer. The first is often not the best. Go for pre-70s Record, or an early U.S. Stanley*. And don't be convinced they need loads of expert tuning, because they almost always don't, noting that lower priced new ones need at least as much, often more anyway.
There are so many good mid-20th C planes about, and there aren't enough of us to buy them all. (Sorry, been admonished for this before, but I do not rate UK Stanley one bit.)

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

Measure the lenght of the beval then measure the thickness of the sole, then tell me how the sole can support the blade, comming up with your own myths there Jacob.

Pete

 

[condeesteso]

Shock of the week from me - Jacob is bang on (sorry Pete, didn't get your point). There is only one worthwhile place for the frog, where blade support is flush with the sole. The second you move the frog forward to close the mouth the blade assembly becomes sadly unsupported just where it needs support the most. And I have not been at all convinced (over years) that tightening the mouth achieves anything good - it does not beat tear out, it does choke.
Damn it Jacob, the candle signature... I've been doing that for years too. Please revert to normal asap.

edit - sorry Pete, get it now. I think the geometry is a bit more complex than bevel length. I grind 30 primary, 35 hone anyway, and I am pretty sure the bevel of sole is actively supporting when frog is aligned. Very happy to be told wrong, but I keep playing with this and have given up closing mouths on Baileys, Bedrock or otherwise.

 

[Jacob]

Hi, Jacob

Measure the lenght of the beval then measure the thickness of the sole, then tell me how the sole can support the blade, comming up with your own myths there Jacob.

Pete

I suggest you have a close look at your plane (assuming conventional Bailey pattern). You obviously never have!

Shock of the week from me - Jacob is bang on

I could get a bit p|ssed off with this phrase as it has been repeated so many times (with variations) by so many people. I ought to keep a count. But I bite my lip and say nowt. :roll:
So many people are so very slow on the uptake.
Over the years I've just got used to it, after all it's not my fault and they often get there in the end! :lol: :lol:

 

[condeesteso]

Ah, that's better. Jacob's back to normal.

 

[Mike Wingate]

I have a few late 60's Records and Stanley planes that I bought as a student and then as a Handicraft teacher. I have kept them in good condition and equiped them with IBC, QS and Smoothcut blades and QS chipbreakers. A few hours spent fettling them up over the last few years has turned them into quality tools. I have also bought 2 Quangsheng planes. They are great straight out of the box (they come in a wooden box) with just a hone. If I was starting out I would buy the QS planes. Clifton planes are great, but far too expensive for me as are Veritas and Lie-Nielson.

 

[Alf]

Measure the lenght of the beval then measure the thickness of the sole, then tell me how the sole can support the blade, comming up with your own myths there Jacob.

I'm assuming Pete refers to this effect:

It's a combi plane and cutter with 25° bevel, but the essentials are just the same as a Bailey. As a comparison to illustrate how the length of the bevel makes a difference, here's a cutter with a steeper 35° bevel angle; notice how much nearer the edge the support is.

Seems to me to be all very dependent on how thick the sole is, how rank the iron is set, bevel angle and so forth, as to whether the sole supports or not. Reckon both POVs have a shot at being correct on this one - which leads me to suppose it probably doesn't matter either way.

 

[Jacob]

Makes more sense to look at the plane in question i.e. a typical Bailey pattern. This is the frog assembly from a good Record 5 1/2 with the blade in the position as for a very fine cut.
4 to 5 mm of the blade back is showing - which will sit tight against the back of the mouth (if the frog is set in line). (NB that's sawdust, not rust).
This is with an approx. full 30º bevel (no primary bevel etc). Honing to 25º as in Alf's example is pointless and also reduces the amount of blade supported. Grinding at 25º and honing at 30º is better. Full 30º best. Worst of all is hollow ground which reduces the support and the stiffness of the blade edge.
If you close the mouth by cranking the assembly forwards then a lot of support is lost.
If you deepen the cut then more of the blade get supported.

 

[Jacob]

You can see it here too. The back of the blade is clearly resting against the back of the mouth (or would be if the frog was cranked back a touch). The blade looks slightly retracted so there would be even more support in actual use.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

That picture is wrong the blade is miles to high up to cut.

Loogs like it was staged to prove a point.


Pete

 

[Jacob]

Hi, Jacob

That picture is wrong the blade is miles to high up to cut.

Loogs like it was staged to prove a point.


Pete

Yes it was staged. They don't come apart like that without a lot of preparation! But I don't see any point being made particularly.
Yes - I said it was too high. If it was down it'd bear on the back of the mouth even more.

 

[Harbo]

Stop all this tooly faffing about - buy a QS or a liethisandleethat if you can afford it?

 

[condeesteso]

Alf's pics show exactly what I have been aiming for. By reducing the blade angle there is more support, and I have been messing with angles getting closer to nil clearance (a 45 secondary on a standard being nil). I am personally happy that going to say 32 + 37 is totally safe, works nice etc, and gives very good blade support. If I move the frog forward the whole thing tends to disappoint, especially on tricky stock.
But I may be moving over to woodies & infills now anyway #-o =D> ... choose one of those that suits your own view! Mathieson, Spiers etc... here we may be coming.

 

[jimi43]

I think you're all too busy faffing about and missing the point!

Grind as many bevels as you like...wipe in on a lump of old rock with any old dip in it...coated with Diesel and avoid dropping it in the pond!

How long is it going to take before you get the point! :roll:

Are you all a bunch of morons like he says you are? :mrgreen:

Personally...I'm so slow on the uptake...I think I will give up trying to understand what this polite, modest, genius is saying and give up and totally ignore it...I am not worthy! #-o

Jim

 

[studders]

So.....

What's the best hand plane for a beginner who doesn't want to spend a fortune?

Anyone??


Hello!!!

 

[Fromey]

So.....

What's the best hand plane for a beginner who doesn't want to spend a fortune?

Anyone??

Hello!!!

The operative word is "fortune". That could vary greatly depending on your credit rating/social standing/etc.

Cheapest that's any good would be an old second hand Stanley/Record that's in good nick.
Next step up would be a QS from Workshop Heaven
Next step up might be the planes DICTUM sell (I say "may be" because I've never read a review for one, but they look nice. Perhaps they are equivalent to QS).
From then on up, (Veritas, Clifton, Lie Neilsen, etc.), you're into the region of "fortune" for most.

 

[Jacob]

So.....

What's the best hand plane for a beginner who doesn't want to spend a fortune?

Anyone??


Hello!!!

Old Stanley or Record as everybody seems to agree. No 5s are cheap for some reason. Good handy size.

 

[Allylearm]

Never liked the 5 Jack I preferred the 5 1/2. But Jacob and opinion spot on with the old Stanley or Record around 70's or earlier and in good state without bad pitting. So 4 or 4 1/2 or a 5 or 5 1/2 seems to be the conclusion or short plane longer plane, your choice now and what you be doing with it

So I will see you on flea bay soon then :lol: I never see good stuff at boot sales, the magpies beat me everytime or I go to the wrong ones.

 

[mtr1]

I would say record/stanley, and No 5 for me never could get on with the 1/2 sizes. If you have a bit more money, then the low angle QS is nice, well I'm loving the T10 steel anyhow.